Man Who Claims He Went to Hell Scams Christians

Bill Wiese is a scam artist. He claims that he went to hell for exactly 23 minutes and now has written a book and spends his life lecturing about his experience in hell.

hell

Here’s a link
to the guy’s web site.

My first thought was – “Okay, so this guy had a nightmare and now is getting rich by convincing people it was true?” If that’s the case, I could make a great deal of money lecturing people on the dangers of going to school naked.

But Wiese assures us that it wasn’t a nightmare:

But first I want to address a couple things, questions that might be in your mind. The first question that would be inbill wiese mine, if I was listening to me, would be, “How do you know it wasn’t just a dream that you had? A Bad dream?” A couple points to make, first of all, I had left my body. I saw my body when I returned, lying on the floor. So I know for sure it was an out of body experience. Some Christians have said, “Oh a Christian can’t leave his body.” But that’s not true, In 2 Corinthians 12:2, when Paul was caught up into the third heaven, He said, “whether in the body, or out of the body I do not know.” So if he didn’t know that must mean it’s possible. And also he said in verse 1 that it was a vision, so I believe this comes under the classification of a vision.

What a fucking lunatic. Here’s some video from FoxNews about the story:

Christianity’s motivation for morality is fear. There is no better example than Bill Wiese. Christians want to be good because of fear that if they don’t they will be put into a burning place to work for eternity. They will define what “hell” would be like in Earthly terms – fire, etc. Yet to describe what “heaven” would be like is supposedly beyond what we can comprehend. What a load of garbage. Your religion is based on fear. That’s weak.

207 Responses to Man Who Claims He Went to Hell Scams Christians

  1. U Vanya says:

    Yes, its amazing just how easy it is to scam faithful Christians. As a Bleiving Christian, it never ceases to amaze me just how naive some of my fellow co-religionists are. Thousands are scammed each year of Billions of Dollars by scam artists who ‘claim’ to know the ‘Secrets of Noahs Ark’, or knowledge of ‘investments’ where massive ‘returns’ can be made only if the faithful can invest in these ‘Funds’.

    Even people like the Rev Moon of the Unification Church, or Scientology are some of the greatest religious scams out that have been sicked on naive and credulous folks.

    • JS says:

      Amazingly enough, it seems this normally curious person didn’t completely verify – Bill Wiese doesn’t scam anyone on this, he doesn’t do this to make any money from anyone. Also, the person who wrote this article, seems somewhat threatened, or there wouldn’t be cause to bring notice to Bill Wiese’s experience, right? Also I have noticed, over and over and over, if you want to be fully credible for what you are saying to others, and if you want to be taken seriously, dump the “f” word, as a matter of fact, make sure to have credible sitings for your writing and opinion, and keep out any emotionally motivated talk inclusive of any profanity and/or immature verbiage. I could tell this writer was really touched by this and have prayed for him/her, as the writer has also left us a link to Bill Wiese’s web site. I thank this writer sincerely, absolutely not sarcastically for bringing glory to our creator, even if inadvertently. I am a person who is not interested in religion, just a relationship. I do not do it because of fear, I have it because of choice. I believe in being a healthy individual with boundaries; one thing to remember though – boundaries in all parts of life include consequences when boundaries are not respected. Our creator has boundaries too – you’ve just heard a little more than is comfortable, it’s understandable how hard it would be to accept. A relationship with our Saviour however is not a comfy, mushy subject – real things in life rarely are – so there’s a crucial decision to make in life. 23 minutes in Hell just helps people to understand that a relationship with our creator is only attainable in one way; the choice to not go that way actually, truly, has the most horrible consequence there is; but, to ask for that relationship with Jesus means that you don’t have to fear the awful (unspeakable) consequence anymore; and that you can have hope and a much more full, abundant life right here, right now.

    • will says:

      This bill wiese character harshely offends me, i wasnt a believer until about a month ago, i had a wacked out experience that i couldnt really describe, and i dont talk of it to hardly anyone i know, i wanted to seek help and talk to people, then i hear about this book that came out, i didnt read but a few pages and the back cover and i already new this man was just tryin to make a dollar, hes no different than the women that come out and say hey i had sex with tiger woods too, but if something like that happens ur not gonna wanna flaunt it to the entire world, its gonna scare the shit out of you and ur gonna stay quiet about it to people you know personally cause u dont wanna look like a lunatic, and alota the shit he says totally contradicts the religion he claims to follow, one of my pet peeves is that i am strongly offended by hypocrites, and this man is living a lie, after knowing what hes about, i realized some things aren’t meant to be flaunted, theres a reason we dont know alot of religios mysteries, i believe its because as humans we could not handle them, thats why i dont question what happened to me, and just rejoice that i finally really found my faith

  2. In all honesty people who are taken by this may deserve to be separated from there money.

  3. RG says:

    I’m also a Christian and believe Jesus is the ONLY way to God. However, I don’t believe in Bill. He probably had a nightmare (a reaction from certain medications?) and he is making money off it and it’s pretty sad. “Creatures” are not the hosts of hell – they are its victims. The Day of Judgment hasn’t come yet, so Hell is empty now – there are no “fallen angels” and “sinful people” in it.

    • Anonymous says:

      There is a hell. The rich man is in it (Luke – Jesus’ account of the rich man and Lazarus). The lake of fire is empty, for now…….

    • David says:

      RG it’s too bad that you post when you do not know what you are talking about. Hell is not empty. “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them…” Revelation 20:13. Sorry, Bill is 100% credable. Read the account very carefully. Noone could come up with a story like that unless he actually lived it. There are too many phrases that confirm that God actually was with him. The last days that we are in are an example of what God will allow us to experience so that we will go and shout the Good News ‘on the rooftops’.

      • Matt says:

        Come on now David,

        let me quote you:
        “Noone could come up with a story like that unless he actually lived it.”

        or maybe was doped up and started to recreate Dante’s “Divine Comedy” or just a scam artist who knows where and who to sell his “product” to make a bundle.

        “…so that we will go and shout the Good News ‘on the rooftops’.”
        that’s the problem David, he is not shouting his nightmare on the rooftops but SELLING it on the net.

        Times back we used to say: “As long as there is horse manure there will be sparrows too.”

      • highrise says:

        If the information is that important and needs to be heard by everyone, it should be given freely out of love. An example set by Jesus himself.

  4. Frank says:

    What if he’s right and you’re wrong?

    • highrise says:

      What if he’s wrong? What do you think the consequences will be for all those who depict God as a terrorist who would create a place to torture his own creation?

  5. I says:

    All religions are for the weak. Lets strap the guy to a lie detector.

    • Nick Hoover says:

      You are just an animal with animalistic actions and thoughts. That should not offend you in anyway, right? I mean you evolved from some form of monkey, started working out and are now the king of the jungle in this random planet we call earth.

      You are right. Religion is for the weak. It is very weak for someone to believe in Love. (DAMN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU SADISTIC PARENTS WHO LOVE YOUR CHILDREN AND WOULD DIE FOR THEM. DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!) I’m like you, I am strong. When someone gets in my way I knock them out, Because GOD FORBID it is so much easier for me to just turn the cheek and walk away or to love those who hate me, no easy road for me though. I mean I know if someone hates me, the tough thing to do is hate them even more because that shows i’m even tougher. Right? Am I any different than that guy. Why of course I am, I hate him more . . .

      “religions are for the weak?” Christianity is for the toughest people on this planet.

  6. Jknight98 says:

    I’m not saying this guy isn’t lying or insane, but there isn’t enough proof that he is. That’s not to say that I don’t think his story seems a little fishy.

    “”And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment,” (Hebrews 9:27).”

  7. John says:

    As a fiction writer, I’m quite offended that I could write a fictional tale about hell of a much higher quality and not make nearly as much money off of it, because I would label my story as fiction. Oh well.

  8. Edward Snell says:

    Why find fault with other’s, when you sould be finding yours and correcting it.

  9. dale says:

    FOOD FOR THOUGHT? there is a great debat on whether or not bills story is true or not, a scam or not,etc,etc. his book 23 minutes in hell–if you take his story and throw it out the window and totlally disregard it 100% and ONLY look at the compiled listed (scriptures) in the( back of the book), and then go to the holy bible and read the sciptures for yourself—what thoughts come to mind?? he has a second book out that expands on further information and different issues,etc,etc. with this second book, do the same thing. throw out all his information and just go to the word of god and see what it says. the holy bibles was around long ago before bill was even born!!!!. THIS i can tell you for sure, i do not know if his story is true or not, but i have read both books, i have studied boths books, looked up a great many of the scriptures to see if they read the same, and to see if they are being used correctly,etc, etc. and this is my conclusion–i think something did happen with bill and i find DEFINETE evidence in the bible that hell is for real and is not a fairy tale to be taken lightly. ****how can people so easily formulate opinions without investigating the matter for themselves? **** are you this person??? i was (and am) a christian (before) i read both of his books, so i already knew a great deal of what he was communicating,etc. JESUS CHRIST is our savoir, period!!!! before you bet your eternity on something else, read and prove or disprove jesus. some questions for you to think abgout??? WHY DOES THE WORLD HATE ISREAL? WHY DO SO MANY RELIGIONS TALK ABOUT JESUS OR CLAIM SOME VIEW POINT ABOUT HIM? THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN LONG LONG AGO, IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF PAST PREDICTIONS COMING TRUE? WHY DO WE STILL SEE SO MANY CROSSES, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS? IF JESUS WAS CRAZY, OR A LIAR, OR A FAKE–WHY ALL THE TALK ABOUT HIM STILL TO THIS DAY? my point is, question it and read the new testament for yourself. i did, and i believe in god AND JESUS CHRIST IS MY SAVIOUR. have a good day. sincerely, dale

    • Julie says:

      Dale,

      Love what you had to say. People need to research before they are so quick to judge. I love Nichole Nordeman’s song “What If”. If their eyes were not so spiritually blind, they would see that there is so much evidence that Jesus was real, is real and will be real forever. I would much rather live my life serving HIM and be wrong, therefore not losing anything, than to have not believed in Him and lose everything.

      • DK says:

        Cool! I stumbled on a loony site.

        You guys are a fun read, for a while anyway. Then I start pondering the fact there are actually people like you sharing the planet with me.

        We’re talkin’ scary amounts o’ dumb.

  10. I BELIEVE BILLS STORY TO BE TRUE. READ YOUR BIBLE.

  11. Louis says:

    Bill Wiese is liar. He quotes numerous scriptures throughout his book, most of which are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about. He continually grabs short phrases and sentences out the Bible and quotes them without showing you the context of the phrase, which makes it easy for him to read his own assumptions into it (yes, I actually looked up every single scripture he cites). The majority of Christians in modern America do not diligently read their Bibles anymore, which makes them easy prey for a con artist like Wiese. But his bizarre fantastic story outrightly contradicts the Bible many times. Luke 16:27-31 (the Lord’s parable of the rich man and Lazsarus) says, “Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” Please see my review of “23 Minutes in Hell” at http://www.geocities.com/spiritualliberty/23MinutesInHellReview.html.

  12. Louis says:

    Bill Wiese is a liar. He quotes numerous scriptures throughout his book, most of which are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about. He continually grabs short phrases and sentences out the Bible and quotes them without showing you the context of the phrase, which makes it easy for him to read his own assumptions into it (yes, I actually looked up every single scripture he cites). The majority of Christians in modern America do not diligently read their Bibles anymore, which makes them easy prey for a con artist like Wiese. But his bizarre fantastic story outrightly contradicts the Bible many times. Luke 16:27-31 (the Lord’s parable of the rich man and Lazarus) says, “Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” Please see my review of “23 Minutes in Hell” at http://www.geocities.com/spiritualliberty/23MinutesInHellReview.html.

  13. Sheila says:

    My dear friend,

    You are being deceived by the ENEMY if you truely believe in your heart Bill is a “SCAM”. I happen to google his name and saw “fraud” and wanted to see what someone had wrote and I came to your sight. God be with you all whom do NOT believe. Living in todays society how can you not? I will no longer visit your site but I will pray for your salvation. Bill is a good, humble man. It is not that he is making money off of his revelation of going to hell…. it is what GOD wanted… for him to tell the secrets of the ENEMY that HELL IS REAL! Do your research. Check out Mary K Baxter and her ” Divine Revelations of Hell”. I’m sure you will think that is a hoax also, but I assure you, it is not. God bless and be with you. I do hope the veil is lifted as you are quite blind with your comments.

    • sarah says:

      Ok, first, let me ask this, do you love God with out having to be threatened? God is a wonderful loving creator. Beautiful, and perfect and Jesus is an amazing loving father. His teachings and miracles are wonderful. WHY DO WE NEED TO JUSTIFY A PLACE LIKE HELL TO BE LEAD TO GOD? When our hearts and minds are aligned with holy loving thoughts and we seek to keep it that way, which is a completely natural state of being for the souls God created long ago, then it actaully kind of makes HELL seem like an obsolete computer program. WHY DO CHRISTIANS FEEL THE NEED TO JUSTIFY THIER LOVE FOR GOD BY PLACING THAT TRAP DOOR UNDER THEIR FEET? MARDORDOM? I personaly think that fear in itself is a ridiculous tactic that the church incorporated long ago. The christain mind set has been so hard wired over the centuries of teachings that they can’t fathom a simple peaceful existance with God without any idea of the pain and suffering waiting for them if they don’t. It makes no sense. Its like spanking the child before they break the rules, while thier still behaving- ya know- just in case they do misbahave. IF you really want hell to exist just to prove your a good Christian, then you have the power to make it so. It will exist for you until you decided that its not necessary as a tool to get you to love God. And for all we know, he could have had a bad dream and completly misinterepted it and got lucky doing so.
      And for the record, I have actaully expeirenced the love of God first hand, with out asksing for it. I felt his love and compassion and it was amazing! Why would God, as the ultimate supreme being with the highest intellegence and widest capacity for love, show me his joy, and then cast a minister into hell? Think about it. We have the power to make choices and make things real when they are not. UNCONDITIONAL love means UNCONDITIONAL love. I think thier are alot of disfunctional christians in the world who have yet to learn what Unconditiional really means. Point, in case you haven’t gotten it yet. And UNCONDITIONALLY loving God, knows no need to show you pain to teach you to love him. But we can choose to expeince pain (wich is the separation from God’s love and light) in order to understand what god is on a higher level. WE CHOOSE.

  14. Barry Harper says:

    I just listened to Bills testimony. I will have to agree with Bill and I do not believe he is A scam artist. Find out what a scam artist is first THEN check Bill out. Jesus is coming soon and in the last days Jesus will bring in as many lost souls as possible. Remember if you point your finger at someone theres four more pointing a YOU !! If this testimony made you think if there really is a hell then the testimony is working.

  15. jason says:

    I have spent a couple hours on this website. One thing I have noticed is there is a ton
    of energy and creativity put into it.
    question…
    Atheists, why do you care? Even if you are correct, and there is no God, you would never be able to say “hey you stupid christians, told you so”. So why put so much energy into this project?

  16. Jeff says:

    Jason: Let me address exactly why athiests and agnostics care about this topic. Some of us used to call ourselves Christians, because that is what we were indoctrinated to be. We were told that we must either 1) fall in line and accept Jesus as savior or 2) burn in anguish for all of eternity, with no coffee breaks, no sleep, or any other elements resembling dignified and humane treatment. ETERNAL PAIN, Jason. We are told that, of course, our loved ones are faced with the same minimal set of choices. Realizing the unlikelihood that all of our loved ones will accept option No. 1, we are heartbroken. As we grow older, we start to think globally, realizing that probably 1 out of 10 people actually talk to Jesus on a routine basis (remember what Jesus said he will do to the lukewarm faithful?…you think most of your Christian brethren aren’t a tad lukewarm?? look around!). We realize, then, that roughly 9 out of 10 people are going to suffer horribly in the afterlife, including such well-meaning folks as Ghandi and other non-Christian philanthropists. So, to alleviate the heartbreak and anxiety of this “fact,” we take on addictions and other destructive habits, as a way of coping. You see, for some of us, it’s not enough to know we are okay…we want to know that others are okay, too, at least those who want to be. At any rate, we continue on this destructive path, hurting ourselves and others in the process. DWIs, affairs, mean-spirited speech, etc. Then, Jason, it happens. Bam!! We start to actually listen to humanists, scientists and philosophers. Whe check out their web sites. We read their books. We think outside the bible box. And what happens, Jason, is that we experience an absolute EPIPHANY, baby. We wake up and reject this crap (Christianity) because there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of its validity. Hold on, Jason, because the best part is about to come! Just for kicks, we pray to a non-Christian “higher power,” not knowing if it exists but saying, “what the hell…why not?” as we beg that these anxieties be gone. We specifically REJECT the god of Christianity during this prayer, as we would never want a god to create such a thing as hell for any reason. We then, to the point we can actually FEEL IT, realize that a MIRACLE has indeed happened: Our addictions and anxieties are GONE!! No more worry, no more fear, no more drugs, no more cigarettes, no more alcohol. You get the point. Next, with our newly liberated mind and unburdened psyche, we are left to conclude that either 1) a non-Christian diety or 2) mere rejection of Christianity … is responsible for this miraculous change. Having rejected the god of the bible during our little prayer, we most certainly can conclude that it wasn’t the Christian god who was responsible. That’s right, Jason…I’ll stop writing in second person and be real for a moment. The truth is this: Ever since I rejected Christianity and all forms of revealed religion, I am ADDICTION-FREE. I am anger-free. I am fun to be around. I am able to give myself boldly in the aid of others. A personal miracle, indeed. My final question for you, Jason, is this: Would your Christian god allow a FALSE GOD or even a NON-GOD to perform such a miracle is someone’s life? You know the answer. …Of course not.

    • Beth says:

      Jeff, I hope you don’t hate me for saying this.. Satan is a master at counterfeits. He deceives people and gives them false peace/happiness all the time. I understand why it hurt your heart to think of people suffering in hell. I feel the same way. But satan is responsible for it, not God. To blame religion for all the sins and addictions people adopt in life is to fail to take responsibility for our own actions/ways of coping. The Lord loves you. He blessed you with a free will. If you choose to hate Him and blame Him for everything wrong with life, He won’t force you to spend eternity with Him. He still wants you though, still loves you, still desires to bless you in this life and the one to come.

    • RealityCheck says:

      Jeff. Personal face to face experience can’t be denied or argued. You will have yours with the King of kings. Please, get back to me when that happens.

  17. Lazarus says:

    I’m really having a hard time understanding what Jeff is saying. If hell is real then it would be a good idea to take it seriously. Not because you could go there, but because of its purpose. It was created for those who would reject Christ sacrifice.

  18. SaneRationalNonDelusionalGuy says:

    Christian=Delusional person who will believe in fairytales anyway.

  19. Alex says:

    I believe, it happened to him. The times getting worse now, and God wants to remind us what is comming. And if we reject Christ, that where we’ll be.

  20. Andrew says:

    The website Louis (the poster here) puts up discrediting the quotes used by Mr. Wiese is sadly and pathetically misleading. He makes quick and erroneous assumptions of quoted scripture, often saying that hell was not spoken of, and God was referring to earthly condemnation, because an adjoining verse mentions the earth. So I guess whenever the earth is mentioned as well as everlasting fire, I guess God is never mentioning hell? Pray for guidance when you read the scripture so that you do not ignorantly misinterpret it. As it can easily be done. Your pastor nor any claimed expert can save you, only Jesus when you seek him out personally. For the spirit saves, not cerebral study. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” –Philippians 2:12

  21. Andrew says:

    To Jeff: YOU believe people do not deserve hell, because YOU believe they are good. You are essentially making yourself God. You do not even know you have done this. You judge and you justify. Who created you? Who gives you breath to live every second and every day? Not You. To God, who created you and gave you life, if you forsake him, he has every right to banish you. Hell is not punishment, it’s just banishment from his grace. Your very ability to live right now is a gift of grace. Athiests who will never accept their true Lord will never understand this, and continue to justify their lives by playing God. But you are only being mortally decieved. When you pass into the next life, you will know quite clearly that you have no power to judge or to sustain anything. When you understand this and do not foolishly judge your creator, you may just have a chance my friend to see that you are truly not liberated but banished into the arms of the deciever. You are giving yourself a place in hell, God is not putting you there. He is simply denying you entry into his eternal presence and he has every right because you choose to follow a deception. You must acknowledge your place, if not, you will be abandoned, and as Mr. Wiese states, Earth is like heaven compared to total banishment in hell. “For dust you are and to dust you will return.” -Genesis 3:19

  22. Jay says:

    So now there have been Christians, Muslims, Jews, New Age folks (and the list goes on and on) who have discussed near death or after death experiences. All of those involved are convinced it was not a dream, or a hoax, but an actual glimpse into the afterlife and a meeting with their God or Savior. So, who’s right? These descriptions vary so much how can one not be skeptical.

    • RealityCheck says:

      Just ask the LORD (please no one else) for your own personal experience. He’ll give it to you. I have had them… these are not for special people. They are for all those who come to HIM. And these …. no one can argue, because they are all yours. And they (when coming from the LORD) will never contradict his Word (the scrpitures).

      Do it. Ask HIM for your personal experience.

  23. Linda says:

    As soon as I finished reading about Bill Wiese’s experience of Hell I believed him. However, even though I am a Christian the devil soon put thoughts into my head that maybe it did not happen. Whenever a Christian comes close to God through prayer, reading the Bible or being involved with church the devil will work harder to get them away from God. So when the doubtful thoughts started to come into my mind I knew the devil was trying to lead me astray in thinking it did not happen. So much more will the devil work at leading those away from God who are not saved by their belief that Jesus Christ took on their sins so that they will be spared from punishment in Hell. God does not want anyone to perish in Hell, He wants all to go to heaven. I have a hard time understanding how one could not believe that God is the One who made the earth and the universe, everything! I am not judging, understand me. I just will pray that in time you may believe. Please try to think of Bill Wiese’s experience as a way that God is trying to prevent as many people, who are created in His image, as possible to not to be eternally in Hell. There are instances in the Bible where God allowed people to see visions so that they would understand why certain things had to happen. I believe God is still doing this right now so that more people will be saved from eternity in Hell.

  24. Charles says:

    Hellooo, Jeff never said he was playing God. He’s just saying that essentially, believing in God is like believing in Santa Claus. “If you’re a good little boy, why, you’ll get all kinds of nice little gifts (heaven?) but if you’re bad, you’ll get a lump of coal (reference to fiery hell?).”
    Personally, I was a Christian until I saw how gays were being treated, and I thought, where in the hell does the bible say to hate on gays? Then, after looking at all the broad-meaning text, I realized: The bible has been translated so many times, how can it be reliable unless we know how to read latin?
    Honestly, guys, the Devil is trying to deceive you with my words. I’m acting as a vessel for him right now. If you believed a word that I said, you’ll burn! OOOooohhhhh noooo!
    Think about this, though: If God was truly a just a noble, loving and forgiving being, which is said OVER and OVER in the bible, then why does anybody go to hell? Jeez, why did he even banish Michael in the first place? Sure, rebellion against Jesus, but why didn’t God just have a sit down and talk to him, or even better, just turn Michael into a human so he wouldn’t cause any harm? No, instead, he said FU Michael, go to the fiery place and be my undying archenenmy for the rest of eternity. Be a threat to the entire existence of the people a love so much, torment them, so I can be the good guy.
    Or think about this: If God is the all-mightly, all-powerful creator, made everything, didn’t he also create suffering? But churches blame suffering on the devil, right? But didn’t God create the devil? Oh, crap! Falacy City!

    • Matt says:

      Charles,

      Quoting you: “I saw how gays were being treated, and I thought, where in the hell does the bible say to hate on gays? ”

      You are right, the Bible doesn’t say to hate homosexuals per se but it prohibits homosexuality in Lev 18:22 then Paul refers back to this prohibition in Romans 1:24-28. (Deut 23:17)
      But these verses are for the believers of the bible. It is clear from reading it. That’s where us, Christians make the greatest mistake. They (excluding me) want to apply the teachings of the Bible to even those who have different set of beliefs.

      But there are the “basic laws” that should apply toward everybody. These laws were also addressed by Hammurabi and others in the vicinity dated back to ca 2050 BC. You know what I mean about “basic laws”. I mean that one should not hurt an other’s legal interests.
      I like this one as one of my favorites from Hammurabi:
      “If a judge tries a case, reaches a decision, and presents his judgment in writing; and later it is discovered that his decision was in error, and it was his own fault, he shall pay twelve times the fine set by him in the case and be removed from the judge’s bench.”

  25. David says:

    Of all the current Heaven & Hell books on the market, this one is most compelling. Those who claim Bill twists and grab scripture are Biblically ignorant. The man is warning you that God loves us but He is also a judge. Judgement is eternal and there is a hell. Like it or not. All you non-believers will have ample time to tell God that He doses not exist.

    I once died in 1989 as a drug dealer. I was dedicated to the Lord as a baby in my AG church and had walked away from God. Due to my mother’s prayers God allowed me to experience the torment of hell and then 2 and a half hours in His glory. I was a sinner then. I became a born again christian and I’m still here due to this experience. You could say I had the hell scared outta me.

    Better think about it before all you know it alls start criticizing me and people like Bill Weise.

  26. Jimmy Z says:

    What in the hell would you, an atheist, know about it one way or the other?

  27. Sarah says:

    Let us be clear that God is not calling each one of us to ‘get your act together or you’ll go to hell.’ Unfortunately, most of us were raised into this fear-based ‘religion’ that seemed to have nothing to do with a loving God and everything to do with being good or else. This is not biblical. God’s word says that if righteousness could be gained by works (doing/being good), Christ came for nothing. God knows we are going to screw up, he knows every bad choice we’ll make and he loves us anyway. God’s Word is not a list of do’s and don’ts that you must obey or else, it is a Love Letter. God’s Word is clear that there are two ways into Heaven– Complete obedience to His moral law (in action and thought) or believing in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for the payment for our sins/disobedience (because Jesus Christ was actually the fulfillment of God’s moral law in thought and deed). He is telling us, I love you right where you are. Even after you chose to believe, God is not calling you to perfection. He knows when you’re going to screw up and HE LOVES YOU STILL! HE NEVER LETS GO. HE IS FAITHFUL EVEN WHEN WE ARE NOT. I desparately want you to know God’s love for you right where you are. Christians often pass judgement very easily and develop a self-righteousness that turns people off to even looking into the Bible, and for that I apologize; sometimes I am that person. If you are interested at all to know objectively about God and His story and His desire to know you and show you His plan, I urge you to read the book “The Stranger on the Road to Emmaus.” by John Cross. It takes a good objective look at what God’s Word has to say to you personally. He is the only one who can love you unconditionally, and be assured that He does.

  28. Linda says:

    This is in response to Charles’s comments on what I wrote back in February. I have a cousin who is gay and I love him the way Christ does. I don’t agree with his choice of gender for a mate, but that is between him and God. I don’t judge or hate gays because that is not what Jesus Christ desires of Christians. Unfortunately there are Christians who do hate gays and treat them badly. Try not to judge being a Christian by the actions of other Christians. God gives everyone, even Christians, free will to make their own choices. He does not force us to be morally right, we make that choice. He uses the Holy Spirit, which he has placed within us after accepting Jesus Christ as dying for our sins, to convict us when we sin. It is our choice to respond to that conviction with requests for forgiveness from God. I pray that you would not abandon the Christian faith because of the irresponsible actions of others. By being a Christian you can show your friends who are gay what Christ’s love is meant to be, that it is not hate.

  29. Rutger says:

    Scripture nowhere says anything about person visiting hell in the last days. What is said in Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: At best the dude had a dream, however, since he claims that he actually was transported, loses all credibility. Someone should kick his ass for making a buck via deception and blasphemy.

  30. Chris Good says:

    hey u stupid atheists! Bill Wiese is not a liar. he is a strong man of God and speaks the truth. i hope yall open your eyes and believe what he is saying and turn to God and repent ’cause He loves you and doesn’t want you to end up in such a place. and im gonna be prayin for yall people who are saying how your a believing Christian but don’t believe the word of God where he says that He IS coming SOON and that hell is not empty. as it says in Isaiah, “You have been cast down to the earth… you are brought down to the grave, to the pits of death.”

  31. Vxmaicqq says:

    vwLiX9 comment6 ,

  32. tony says:

    fuck em if they dont wanna belive they where warned , stupid ass people , acting as if i´m gonna drop my belive in the brother billy cause you hell bound faggots are trying to smear his good name, you mothers wont be in hell 2 seconds before you´ll be changing your minds

  33. Rebelpython says:

    It must really suck to be a “Christian” and live every day wondering if you’re good enough to avoid hell. I grew up in a fundamentilist pentecostal nightmare of constant fear. They threaten you with hell for even thinking for yourself. As for this “23 minute” bs and Mary Baxter’s book, It’s all about fear and money. I’m more than sure that if God really tormented those two into writing those books, He would have stated up front that his message was not to be used to make them money. As for whether hell is real……..if it is I WILL NOT WORSHIP A GOD WHO WOULD PUNISH PEOPLE FOR LITTLE OR NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

    • David says:

      God does not punish for little or nothing. The lost are punished because they did not accept His gift of eternal life. Ther is only one way to heaven. God owns Heaven and if you are going to go there, you will have to go His way.

      • Cilasliag says:

        I lived and died 700 years ago. I was an Aztec farmer in Central America. I never heard of Jesus and now I am Burning in Hell. But God said he loved me and that was why he sent Jesus to die for me. I asked Him who that was. He said, “Don’t be stupid!” I answered, “Lord, how could I have ever rejected a Man-god I had no chance of hearing about?” The Lord said, “Them’s the breaks, deal with it.” I said, “But didn’t you just say that you loved me?” And He said, “I am done talking to you, get fried, bitch!” Can one of you Christians Help me, and please reason with this God of yours, he seems insane.”

  34. Rebelpython says:

    One more thing,I’m convinced that hell is now. Every torment stated in those books goes on right here right now. People are burned alive every day. People are ripped to shreds every day. People are tormented physically,mentally,and spiritualy every day. Watch CNN long enough and you’ll see every torment mentioned in those books to the letter. This IS hell.

  35. Jecht says:

    OK..
    To start of with… no one truly knows what’s in store for us in the afterlife. I truly believe in GOD and his unlimited love and forgiveness. He will lend you his hand and it will be up to you to take it or not; or else what would be the reason for our existence? O, wait let me tell you what these scam artist want you to believe… “I am GOD, I placed you on this earth only to make you fear the afterlife for the rest of your human life because that was my intention..” ummm I DON’T THINK SO!!!! GOD TRULY AND DEEPLY LOVES ALL OF HIS CHILDREN, THEREFOR HE WILL NOT FORSAKE US!!! PERIOD!. Please stop reading and believing everything you see. There are people out there that may or may not have hit rock bottom in their life and believe if they place fear upon people, these people will buy their product and dig them out of their finance issues. I’ve seen this many times before. My theory of the afterlife is, enjoy life!!! Love and respect one another prove to GOD what a wonderful creation he made (Witch is you by the way…lol )and enjoy life. Pray for those who need help and ask forgiveness when you’ve hurt one another. Life is too short to be worrying about these useless shenanigans.

    May GOD bless you all!
    From a non-believer of ANY religion man-made!!! basically every religion.
    BELIEVE IN GOD. IN HIS UNLIMITED LOVE FOR YOU…. THAT’S ALL THAT COUNTS!

  36. Stacey says:

    WOW! a lot of ppl on here claiming to be “Christians” which explains why ppl want no part of Christianity. Sarah there is ONLY ONE WAY to heaven and that is to give your heart to God, confess your evil ways (sins) and to turn from sin. Believing the lie that “we are human and God knows we make mistakes” is a very dangerous thing. When you truly except Christ and allow him in, your sin begins to vanish b/c God is within you. That doesn’t mean the Devil wont still continue to try and tempt you but the power of God can help you to reject the Devil. The reality is there is a HELL and if you do not heed God’s warnings you WILL end up there. I get so sick of hearing ppl say “don’t say someone is going to go to hell! you aren’t GOD!” No I’m not God but I know what God has said and I know that God is not a liar. It is very sad to think of all of the ppl who are on their way to hell. Very depressing. Let me tell you ppl that no matter how much you try to ignore it and how much you try to discredit the truth that is still not going to be a good enough excuse when God asks you why you deserve to live with him. Would you let a stranger, someone you never knew just walk rt up and invite themselves into your home. I think not! Yet a lot of you are banking on this idea. “God is a loving God and he would never send ME to hell!” Oh yes he will too he gives all more than enough warning and it’s up to you if you want to listen or not. He warns and warns and warns time and time again constantly. Keep ignoring the warnings and you will find out the hard way that God is a man of his WORD!!!! Christianity is NOT a religion it is the ONLY way to heaven. PERIOD. If your bitter about that your listening to the Devil’s lies and you need to take your hand from his and rip off the blind fold and see what’s really goin’ on. God has spoken to me just as strongly as the Devil speaks to those who choose to pick apart the truth and to turn it into what they WANT to believe(its much more comforting to believe u can do what u pls and still go to heaven but it’s simply NOT the case.) Do you really feel comfortable taking a chance like that with your soul hanging in the balance of never ending suffering? As I said God has spoken to me and what he said was this…”Jesus is coming in YOUR generation and you will see him with your own eyes!” So it’s going to be soon and I hope you guys can see past your own noses long enough to do what God put in your heart to know what’s right. The reason ppl get so angry with us Christians is because they DONT want to hear the truth. They believe that if they never hear it they will not be held accountable. But God put those ppl in your path it is your fault if you ignore them. They are only doing their job as a true Christian. These “Christians” that sugar coat things are not living up to their obligations and if they don’t know that maybe they need to consider who and what it is they’re listening to. I’m a strong believer in honesty and I have no problem excepting the fact that God is the most honest being there is. Hell is a fearful place but God never claimed to be all rainbows and butterfiles…he’s a just God. Would it be fair if a judge let a serial killer go b/c he simply claimed that he’s really a good and loving person? NO! and I’m sure there would be a forum for that too. I’m also sure that there are ppl who would defend that person. This world is so corrupt rt now and I wish ppl would start to open their eyes to that fact. We are all in deep doo doo if we don’t start living the way God intended and no amount of deceiving ourselves is going to help us.

  37. Stacey says:

    oh I need to add the most important part of being permitted to heaven is OF COURSE to claim Jesus as your one and only saviour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  38. MinWill says:

    i just finished the book, googled the mans name, and here i am. i believe in God, Jesus amd the Holy Spirit. if there were no Bible, i would still believe. i believe that God knows alot better than i do. his word says (Matt. 25:41) that Hell was not created for us (man). So, if we serve the one HELL was created for…well, we share his fate. we do not belong there. i believe the testimony and i pray that all those who do not believe, or at one time did believe, will come to the saving knowledge of Jesus. not out of fear, but out of realizing that he loves you more that you could ever know.

  39. Natasha says:

    I want to know who are any of you to pass judgement on ANYONE? Last time I looked in my BIBLE that job had not been appointed to us.. Only one being is worthy of upholding that job and it is no one here on this EARTH, well not right now anyway..

  40. Isaiah says:

    We now have your opinion, but where’s the proof that Bill Weis is lying? Do you have some compelling reason to believe he’s scamming people? Bill Weis isn’t taking money from this ministry, so what’s the point. Also, how do we know that Atheists aren’t scamming people? Many of you atheists sound very angry and bitter. If that isn’t the case, why do you care what people believe?

  41. Michael Kent says:

    Isaiah says : “Do you have some compelling reason to believe he’s scamming people? ”

    If someone told you they could see the future, how would you prove they couldn’t?

  42. rebelpython says:

    I never said I was an athiest. I said that I refuse to serve a God who would send people to hell for little or nothing,and after reading those two books,it only makes my view of this God even worse. If you read the books,you will notice that most of those souls were sent there for some trivial reason. Most of those people are good people who never went to church or got tired of the half truths being preached from the pulpits.

    • Simon D says:

      God does not sent people to hell, people choose to go to hell.He never made us to be like robots.
      We are free moral beings, responsible for our actions. I can tell you with certainty many are right now in hell wishing they had another chance to make amends……….too late. Many will still go down that way, because their ways are evil. We must get it straight that Jesus never said every one that said to him lord lord will enter the kingdom……..only those that do the will of the father. Just because there are fakes christian does not mean, real ones dont exist. Why lock up your heart(from the real truth) just because you have heard a half truth from some pulpit once. I never see no man who said i wont use money again just because there are fake monies in circulation.

  43. rebelpython says:

    I was raised in a cult called “Pentecostalism” I know what I’m saying.

  44. Simon D says:

    People who refuse to believe in the existence of hell have already made a choice. If hell does not exist why bother? Why burn all your energies cricticising Bill for his testimony. But let me ask all these people fighting hard to disprove the existence of hell, what if after your death you discover hell exist and you where not prepared and its too late to make amend?. On the other hand, you will have nothing to loose if you lived a Godly life and in death you are told there was no need denying yourself of the sinful pleasures of this wold. Hmmm you can wish away a reality…….you will wake up to it some day.

    • Phillip says:

      Are you stating that a belief in this pagan hell is a requirement for salvation? If so, then please provide chapter and verse that states “you MUST believe in hell for salvation” Nonsense!. Read my last few posts at the end of this thread. Have a nice day.

  45. rebelpython says:

    There will be just enough room in hell,right beside me,for all of you who walk through life denying yourself any fun whatsoever. I only see christianity as an opressive and depressive way of life. I have lived it and suffered under it. You can have it and all the pipe dreams of a better afterlife.

  46. WIlliam says:

    It is difficult to convince people about Hell, afterlife etc., I only pray that God will give them Grace to understand, before it is too late.

    God is Love and the other side is that HE is a consuming fire. We need to be very careful lest we land up on the wrong side. You cannot expect God to speak and cajole everyone individually. You have a free will to choose what is Good and Bad.

    Please believe on Jesus to be saved from Eternal Punishment.
    God Bless you all

  47. Steve A. says:

    I think Bill is telling the truth because-

    1. It is in God’s nature to use unlikely people to warn the apostate.
    2. Hell, having no attributes of God (mercy, light, joy, peace, comfort etc.), is most likely just as Bill described.
    3. John Bunyan also had the same experience(“visions of heaven and hell”) and his first thing he did on his return was to write a book of warning.

    Going to hell is entirely elective and God doesnt want anyone to go to this place which was prepared for the devil and demons. Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to elect out. God will not be mocked.

    • Matt says:

      Steve A,

      I thought he sold everything he owned and gave it to the poor when he came back from la-la land. But writing a book? He did not want to make money by writing it, did he?

  48. Wendy says:

    The reason people go to hell is because they are so self-involved that they end up serving Satan. They serve Satan by ignoring the needs of others and just tending to themselves. 23 minutes in hell shows the end for self-involved people. God is love and our highest calling is to love God and love one another. This causes us to put away our selfishness and pursue a holy life – a holy life is filled with love of others. It is that simple. It is because people refuse to love others that what they end up with is what they chose. God doesn’t send people to hell, He loves people and desires that all would know the joy of loving and being loved unconditionally. Christians believe in Jesus not because they are afraid of hell, it is because we have experienced His unconditional love and forgiveness. Our job now is to extend this same free gift to others. If we aren’t doing that then we too are in danger of losing out. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Love covers a multitude of sins. All you here who don’t believe in God, at least believe in the power of love as the greatest good and try to live that and then you will be pure in heart and you shall see God. Many blessings on you all!

  49. another Wendy says:

    I have read Bill’s book three times and am amazed every time I read it! He is not the only one to have this kind of experience! Look it up for yourself! In fact a couple nuns with reports far before Bill’s report similar horror stories one hundred years ago and in different countries and languages! Bill’s testimony is to warn all of us before we pass from this life and before it is too late to turn back! I for one welcome his story as a true warning!! If one does not believe then the enemy is doing his job to keep the truth from non-believers! And that is his primary goal mind you!!
    If you have had a bad experience with Christianity in the past then I am sorry but don’t forget, God does’nt fail us man does! We are not suppose to put our faith in man!! God bless all of you!!

  50. Shelley says:

    What a crock load of bull! Is this now going to be a sequel to Hellraiser II? It’s all rubbish people, the fact that he’s still alive after such an experience that he claims ( he hasn’t even had an NDE not any medical doctors confirmation that he was clinically dead ). Also how can anyone have had such an experience & not show any emotions that go with it, if he really did experience it? He’s telling a pack of LIES to plug his pathetic book, also fleece those out of their cash, same old hat ‘ Fear & control ‘ for easy money! I suppose this supports the ‘ Well of Hell Hoax ‘ along with it! Yes, it was a hoax, they tell this story & mix untrue stories alongside it, one norweign guy admitted to an embellishment on this story he heard in the USA and the Finnish Newsletter/magazine published it without checking the background & source of the story ( basically the norweign guy proved the point of they accepted anyold rubbish story told). Also this Dr Azzacov of the geologist expedition that the Christian ministries all cite in this ‘ Well of Hell hoax ‘ as a true factual story of hell exists & scientists ( geologists ) support it with testimonies of hearing such screams, they all say Dr Azzacov said this & that but where is Dr Azzacov to prove this, can you hear him talking on video, can you hear him on radio, can you pull a newspaper showing a letter to the supposed statement of his? On all counts ‘ NO ‘…So perhaps Dr Azzacov said no such thing to what these christians are saying! especially the money making ministeries. Bill Wiese is a LIAR does he look like he’s been to such a HELL HOLE? No, perhaps in his Mind YES..And NO i’m not saying he’s had a nightmare either. I mean did the makers & writers of ‘ Hellraiser ‘ the movie have a nightmare?

  51. RG says:

    He is wrong on one thing – the devil is not the host of hell – he’ll be howling and trashing in hell like the rest of the people.

  52. rebelpython says:

    OK. Let’s just suppose for a minute that hell is real. A couple of poster’s here have given the illusion that we have a choice not to go there. The bible I grew up reading tells me that you either serve “God” or you go to hell. That is not a choice my friend,that is a threat. I do not respond well to threats.

  53. Anonymous says:

    This guy somehow got my material while I was moving. I do not know if my roomate had got his hands on it or trashed it or the copy I had on the computer was hacked but I had this dream while attending ITT Tech in Lake Mary Florida. I lived in Florida from 2005 to 2007. I was asked to read this by a fellow Christian. As I began reading it I releasized it was my material. I am stupid for not copyrighting it but this guy is fluke! It is hard to believe that two people could have exactly the same dream. Many of his paragraphs were the way I wrote my dream after it occured. I am extremely upset with this character. He is liar!

  54. Anonymous says:

    I want to puke knowing my material and dream were exploited.

  55. Rebelpython says:

    I really hope that “RG” is not rg stair. I’ve had some crazy dreams too,but I’m smart enough to know the difference between dream and reality. Hell, If half of my dreams were reality,I’d be surrounded by playboy models.

  56. Rebelpython says:

    The models from the 1970′s too. Not the cheap imitations today.

  57. how many innocent victims have gone insane from the concept of hell(s) after death? how many people’s lives were shortened considerably from constant worrying? how many children are glad they were “programmed” once they hit adulthood? i see miserable christians with grimaces of internal torture on their faces from what they were told is “holy trooth”. the only purpose of being a christian (nowadays) is to avoid going to hell. i used to be miserable. wasted my whole childhood believing what my neurotic parents told me. but then i realized a few things, successfully deprogrammed myself over a period of a few years, etc. needless to say i now enjoy life. some people waste their whole lives being a coward. glad i escaped while i’m still young.

    • god(s) can only speak through prophets? don’t make me laugh, they should clarify their “demands” from the sky if they’re torturing decent folk for being born bad. what people don’t seem to realize… if there are deities burning people to a crisp in the “afterlife” (nyuk), we should be waging a war on such beings. Oh, that’s right, as christians you are obligated to feel powerless.

      but don’t worry, i’m sure there’s some sicko out there who would to see a real hell contructed just so that it REALLY DOES EXIST, after all humans seem to extremely like the idea, so funding shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

  58. Steve A. says:

    The Bible is clear on the subject of hell and in stating that God doesn’t want anyone to go there. It is as real as the law of gravity. Denying that you will hit the pavement after jumping off a building because you think it is unjust doesn’t change the fact that gravity has consequences. God is pro-choice. He will let you turn your back on Him but that decision has consequences.

  59. Rebelpython says:

    Ok Steve A. Did you read Mary Baxter’s book? I have. Twice. According to the bible I read, The King James, Jesus does not walk through hell,ask a person why they are there and then rub their faces in it by saying “Too late” when they beg him for forgiveness. That is sadistic and demonic in nature. Look at some of the reasons these people have been sent there. Rediculous,mundane,and trivial reasons that certainly don’t deserve an eternity in hell. The book never once picks out a John Wayne Gayce or a Jeffry Dahmer. Just some person whose only crime was not going to the right church or maybe someone who did’nt believe in God becouse this God never once went out of his way to show himself real to that person. Argue this any way you like and you’re going to come up short.

    • David says:

      O.K. Rep. Do not serve God because of a fear of hell. Serve Him because Jesus gave His life and died hanging on a cross. He was the substitute that paid for our sins. He did that because He loves you & me. Do you love someone so much that you would take their punishment for them? John 3:16

  60. jesus said it, i smoked it, that settles it, people are easily deceived and easier to control. nobody seems to understand the nature of hoaxes. just because it cannot be proven… doesn’t mean its real. just because you cannot prove the existence of morally minded deities, doesn’t mean they exist on this planet. the closest thing you’ll ever see to a god, is the government. but some people like the idea of being owned by an oppressive authority figure. humans belong to nobody but other humans. you cannot go through life without your brain being polluted by other people’s paranoia and insecurities. brainwashing is inevitable. only a few make an attempt to get theirs back. america’s not nearly as superstitious as other countries out there. consider yourself lucky.

  61. Rebelpython says:

    I do believe in God. My perception is different from most people on this subject,but I do believe. My argument is that I don’t believe for one minute that all but a few self rightous “Christians” will burn. There would be absolutely no point in having created man to begin with if that was the case. I also believe only a perfect God could create such a perfect mess.

    • Steve A. says:

      Reb, those are tough issues and as a former self-styled “agnostic” those were pretty much my reasons for having that view. When an Archangel goes bad, big problems result, one of which is the corruption of man; anyone can see there is plenty of evidence of corruption. If God didn’t act, then we’d all be lost. BUT, He did act, and at a huge cost to Himself. There’s nothing I’d give my son for, but God did this even while we gave Him attitude and worse. Call me a fool if you wish, but a God that does this, has to be the one God. Our Judge is also our Father. Our defender is Christ our brother. The accuser is the devil, who hates us, tempts us to sin and then throws the book at us. Plead guilty and trust God.

  62. sherry says:

    did you do any research before you wrote this???

    Bill lectured for FREE for 11 years before he wrote the book..

    He was already rich while he lectured for FREE…

    His passion was and is only to save souls from that horrible place..

    He wrote the book 11 years after the fact.. read it.. and read is second book.. everything he went through is backed up by scripture..

    pastors and speakers, many write books of their life experiances..

    Are they all frauds as well???

  63. J says:

    It is the truth that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. All you have to do is accept Him as your Lord and Savior. You do that by repenting of sins, asking for forgiveness, believing that He is God, died for us and rose again, and trying the best you can to follow Him with the help of the Holy Spirit. People sin every day, but you don’t deliberately live a life of sin. We are not perfect. We ask God for forgiveness when we do something wrong, but we don’t live a life of doing whatever we want because God will forgive us. That is mocking God. People should feel guilty when they do something wrong. When you read the bible every day, God will quicken you and you will start to feel more remorse when you do something wrong. God will forgive you of all your sins-no matter how bad, but you have to be genuinely sorry for doing them and try not to keep yourself from doing those sins. You will fail. You will make mistakes because you are a human, but if you are like, “I’m going to go party whenever I want cause God will forgive me anyway,” then something is wrong. When you understand salvation and what Jesus did for you on the cross, you will want to serve Him and it won’t be a burden. We can’t earn our way to heaven by doing good works. There are going to be people in hell who lived good lives and rejected the gospel. Jesus is the only thing that covers sin. He warns us about hell because hell was designed for the devil and his angels, not humans. Humans choose to go to hell because they choose to reject Jesus Christ. It is a child like faith. All little children who die go to heaven because they haven’t reached the age of accountability where they can truly understand the gospel message and what it means to accept or reject Christ. When you get to your age of accountability(it is different for everyone), you will be responsible as to whether you chose Christ or the world(i.e. devil).

    As far as Bill Wiese’s book goes-I don’t know what the deal is. I think he may have had a true vision or experience to a degree, but I don’t think God would allow him to go to hell and experience the pain(physical) etc. if he were a Christian. I would feel better about his testimony if he didn’t charge money for his books. A lot of people try to make a lot of money off of Christianity and that isn’t right. God and the love of money don’t go hand and hand. If he were giving the money a way to help spread the gospel, then I would take it seriously. However, he may be doing that. I don’t know what he does with the money he gets from the books. At least the gospel message is being given regardless.

  64. J says:

    I meant to say that you try to keep yourself from sin, though you won’t be perfect and you will make mistakes.

  65. J says:

    Just wanted to add that even if people live “good lives” according to the world and what people think is good, they fall short because according to God, no one is righteous, not one. So because no human is without sin, we need a Savior in order to be right with God. We can only gain entrance into heaven by letting Christ in our lives to wash us from our sins. It is scary to stand before a righteous God without Christ to cover us. If you think about the glory of God and that He is without sin, it doesn’t matter if we are better than the rest. What matters is if we believe in Jesus Christ as God and make Him Lord of our lives. Then we can stand before God because He sees His Son.

  66. rebelpython says:

    “Christ” as you put it,has a bad habit of ignoring prayers and keeping people in the dark. If there was a “Hell”,he can take the blame for having let people go there becouse he was so intent on keeping people in the dark. It completely pisses me off when I think of some basically innocent person in torment becouse “Christ” is too self rightous to prove anything to anybody. I’m done with this argument. Believe what you want.

  67. Josh says:

    You guys should all look up Chuck Missler The Science Of God video

  68. Jay says:

    Back when I was a lad and went to church, sunday school, confirmation classes, etc. we were told that basically all you need to do at the pearly gates of heaven is accept that Jesus Christ died for your sins. I haven’t been to church in years. It doesn’t “move” me and I don’t feel enlightened. All I could think about when I went was how much longer it would take because the football game starts in 20 minutes; or who the hot chick in the 4th pew was.
    Soooo….that being said, when I die shouldn’t I be able to say “Hey, Jesus died for my sins. I’m a poor, miserable sinner. Will you open the gates now?” and I should be covered, right?

  69. David says:

    I think based on the Biblical writings about hell and why God sends people there, Mary’s accounts are credible.
    First, God does not send people to hell because they smote their brother or sister. Or because they did something that God does not like while here on earth.
    God sends people to hell because they rejected the free gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    The fact that they felt the calling of Jesus to serve Him and did not because they were too busy indicates to me that they never accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour.
    Ephesians 2:8 For by GRACE (unmerited favor) are we saved through FAITH. It is a GIFT of God, not of ourselves, lest any man boast

    We cannot earn redemption, Jesus paid the price for our forgiveness of sin by shedding His blood on the cross. It says in Hebrews that without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sin. Our actions before or after salvation has no bearing on our salvation. Jesus did it all. We are only to accept His substitutionary death, burial, and resurrection to be saved.

  70. Mark S says:

    Every skeptic responding to this blog out of fairness ought to check out Dr. Maurice Rawlings book ‘To Hell and Back’. He is/was a surgeon, I believe, and was not a believer in Jesus or Hell for the most part. IN his book he states that he was working on a patient, and the patient revived from clinical death begging and pleading with him not to send him back to hell, but to keep him alive. He repeats this scenario numerous times in his book.

    ARE you telling me that this brilliant surgeon is off his rocker?? I find that difficult to believe. What I really believe is that there are some of you in this forum who are very uncomfortable with giving account of your life to a perfect Creator. That use to make me very uncomfortable also until I repented of my sin, and trusted in Humanity’s only solution.

    Bill Wiese isn’t crazy either. I certainly do NOT believe that his motive is make money. Bill Wiese is one of numerous people, including myself, who have had very real encounters with Jesus and the supernatural realm. Please be advised, IT’S YOUR CHOICE. You can disbelieve now, but for certain when you disrobe your earth suite as we all will one day, you will then be a true believer. The question is, are you ready? Am I? If not, NOW is the time to get ready. Don’t leap from the plane of life without a parachute. Just like the law of gravity will take you out, so will the law of sin and death. It’s very real with very real consequeces. I don’t nessecarily like it any more than some of you. But, it’s a reality that I have to cope with.

    • ebj says:

      In Dr. Rawling’s book, everyone has a different ‘hell’ experience. Some were covered with snakes, some were in fire. Doesn’t it seem logical that they would all have had the same experience if they all went to the same place?

    • highrise says:

      If I feel I have received a vision or anything else from God that the world needs to hear, I would be giving it to everyone for FREE out of love. An example set by Jesus himself. I don’t recall Him being in the book “selling” business.

  71. Universalist says:

    Please, just stop criticizing this mans review. Theres a good chance that someone who knows what the bible says can likely have a 23 minute nightmare and tie any scriptures together to claim that their version of hell is the true version. Half that stuff in the book did not really explain the true nature of hell. The purpose of Hell is to cleanse one of their sins. Not torment them forever with no hope of relief, just cause they were in the wrong religion. I dont even know where to even begin with all the Theological errors of this book, let alone the people who are making these rants. I strongly suggest you checkout tentmaker.org for a real, untainted gospel. Not this turn or burn forever the traditionalis cling to

  72. Andrew says:

    I am wondering,have anyone of you read the book? I have read it. If you read the whole book it will make a lot more sense instead of picking apart certain sections.

  73. Emi says:

    Our religion is not based on fear, is based on truth some just cant handle the truth, whether bill is lying or saying the truth there is a hell, follow christ and you wont live to find out if there is a hell or not, whats there to loose? the world wont lead you to any good except for addictions and bad habits, the bible is the word of god, read it and many questions will be answerwed. This is a crazy world, open your eyes, us humans are like babies, you give them freedom and they make a huge mess.

  74. S Fuchs says:

    Christianity is not based on fear. Being a good person will not send any of us to heaven. It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about because of your last paragraph.

    The only way to heaven is Jesus. If you accept him as the son of God and as your savior, then you’ll have eternal life. And you can’t just accept Him because you’re afraid of going to hell. You need to want to have a relationship with him.

  75. Matt says:

    Dear All,
    I am having a good time reading these messages about this guy who makes a whole lot of money via “testifying about the reality of Hell.”

    There are participants from every fraction of Christians, Atheists and unidentified (those who would not reveal their system of belief) ones probably including some from cults in this debate.

    As I see it – according to the wisdom (or foolishness) granted to me – some of you have problems with – one’s understanding one’s own belief. I am prone to refer to Christianity since I am somewhat familiar with that religion and not the others, unfortunately, as a result of my own laziness to look into them. Many participants profess to be Christians and some comments reflect great ignorance about Biblical truths. They believe that everybody should follow the Holy Writ to the letter. Let me advise you that first and foremost you, yes YOU professing Christians (including myself) should follow those truths and consider that the Bible was written FOR YOU (and me) PERSONALLY and to nobody else (when unbelievers come to faith then it is their own book of guidance through life. Now, do not be nit picking and ask “how will the come to faith if they do not read the Bible?” They come to faith by seeing your example of being just and helpful and peaceful and so on.) When you possess that knowledge you will leave other people alone and let them live their lives as they see it fit as long as they do not violate YOUR legal interests (your life, liberty, property most importantly.) The problem is that you are too busy trying to force your beliefs on others (instead of worrying about yourself) thus alienating them from Christianity. You are too busy to tell others – who do not share your faith – that “the Bible says such and such.”

    This leads me to this guy who came up with this “Hell” book to scare people and corral them into the “flock” in order to make more money. But who does he scare with the untruths he conjured up? Yes, Christians who are insecure in their faith, who do not own the understanding of the Truth. ‘You think other people are going to be scared? They do not believe it anyway and certainly are not going to spend money to buy a pack of lies. The book he wrote and (other media) is purchased by….. yes, Christians. He is preying on his fellow Christians. What places does he “testify” in person? Yes, in church buldings. Who does he “testifies” to…? Christians. Does it sound like a clue? Maybe not… first come the knowledge and understanding one’s own belief. Until then…. the range is free to roam around for people like Mr.Wiese.

  76. JXS says:

    As someone who lost my close brother and father a few years right around the same time and having my brother and dad come to me in dreams telling me they were alright (they were not even remotley religious) and reading about many other stories i am convinced you go to a temporary place to rest and wait until you are reincarnated. I think fundamentalist religion was made up and manipulated by man to control the masses.

    Fundamentalist christianty doesn’t make no sense to me, lets see problem #1 that you are born to go to hell by default unless you believe in the correct religious belief. Problem #2 is that being a decent person has less meaning than the correct religious belief again. So i guess a person who volunteered their whole life to unselfishly helping other people and never doing nothing bad to anyone but don’t believe in the “correct religious philosophy” they will go to hell and someone who brutalized and harrassed or even murdered many people during their life can still go to heaven if they repent. WHAT!? In spirituality and karma you WILL PAY for any wrong you done to people and be awarded for any good you have done. I think our existence is a little more complicated than just trying to prove that you are the “true believer of the correct religion”. Your purpose on this earth plane is to learn not to prove you shouldn’t be punished. You have to WANT to do good because it makes you feel good NOT because of the fear of hell.

    Both Bill Wiese and Mary Baxter are frauds, i have read both these books. There are lower level hellish planes you can go to immediately after death with other negative lower vibe souls but you are not condemned there forever and will eventualy evolve to higher vibration planes. Go to http://www.neardeath.com and read Howard Storms neardeath experience. I had many other supernatural experiences that i’ve experienced (i’m not going into them here) that convinced me that fundamentalist religious beliefs are all wrong. I have read the bible and used to go to church alot at a time not too long ago, i was a fundamentalist christian at one time myself so i understand what christianty is all about.

  77. Shannon says:

    Interesting Discussion..
    The bottom line as I see it is:
    If there’s no hell!! Great! But…. If there is you better think about seeking Jesus! Just in case!
    I know I’m living life on the Safe side, with God! the price is paid AMEN

  78. Mk says:

    Shannon. You’re referring to a philosophical model known as Pascal’s Wager. But what the wager does not address are actions that that are done in the name of religion that would not have been done otherwise. Fear, oppression, worrying, etc.

  79. andreas says:

    I believe that either Bill wiese is genuine phoney or a very deceived person. A true Christian , by virtue is supposed to be humble. A humble person, will by virtue shy away from publicity of any nature ,no matter how big his experience might be .A proud person on the other hand will want to attract as much attention to themselves as what they possibly can. So why not invent a story and become an instantly famous millionaire . This story is “the great marketing tool” for his big success. How does one write books, become a celebrity and stay humble all at the say time?
    Take Christ as an example. He would perform a miracle and then would disappear out of the crowds ..He disappeared so that that people would turn round and give all the glory to God. Christ didn’t want to receive the glory for himself. He wanted people to give God the glory.
    But what do ,today’s so called Christians do? They perform “miracles” and tell stories in front of thousands of viewers and then bask in their own glory. Is this from God or is it from Satan? Neither Christ or any of his disciples went around with collection plates after performing miracles, robbing people of their hard earned money. The bible talks about tithing. This word has been misinterpreted for personal gain. Tithing is about a giving of 10% of ones whole effort to God. I.e. ones prayers, ones philanthropy and ones help and money to others .Its not all about money. It doesn’t mean a giving of 10% of ones money to the church. God isn’t a tax collector.

    But today people are using the word of God to make plenty of money. . The way this story has been marketed reeks of plenty of deception . If on the other hand ,his claim that he really did have an experience is true , then I am led to believe that the demons had a hand in it. Demons can also perform miracles ,fabricate illusions in the hands of the beholder and even take one into many states of ecstasy. The demons are the chief fabricators of all lies. Its is to their advantage to fabricate a story like this one so that millions of people can come to believe in bills’ story and that he and his so called “ministry” has the correct knowledge of the truth and the correct way of getting into heaven .So in the end thousands of people will believe in his story and follow the deceived Christianity of the new age movement. The Christianity of the new age movement is riddled with plenty of deception .
    The Christianity of the new age movement is a deception based on a fabricated lie. There are truths in it but all are only half truths . In the filled glass, lies the half lie which consists of the passions of men.
    If you listen to today’s Christians you will find that, they will always land up speaking all about themselves. You will hear things like, “God spoke to me”, ‘The power that are in these hands”, “the visions and dreams I have had” etc etc and also what bill wieses’ proclaims “God took me so see hell.”

    Its all about feeding the ego of man. Mans ego is like an insatiable lion.It needs to be fed plenty . .
    Without the food of the ego the lion in men will starve. So the choice is ours to make. Do we feed the lion or do we starve it. By starving it, we will become humble and Christ like. By feeding it with lies and passions we will create a den of lions for ourselves. If we do not starve the lion of pride, we will become the slave and the lion will become our master.

    Christianity is alive and well today ,its been alive and well for 2010 years. The early Christians practised it and have been practising it ever since. Go into the internet and dig up for yourselves on how early Christianity was practised in the early times. Millions of early Christians gave up their lives for Christ. Early Christianity was about been persecuted for what they believed in .Todays Christians are not been persecuted. They are basking in the showery rains of fame and money. A far cry from early Christianity.
    In like manner the Russian Christian people suffered immense persecution from the communist regime. Millions of Russians Christians , lost their lives in prisons and been exiled to Siberia for not wanting to deny the name of Christ. A little look into how the Russians Orthodox practised Christianity in the time of the great persecution will reveal a lot to the west of how impoverished and spiritually poor they actually are. And please no cheap imitations.

  80. JXS says:

    Funny how fundamentalists contradict themselves by saying things like “well i would rather believe jesus died for my sins then by taking a chance by not believing and being wrong”. That statement itself proves the doubt fundamentalists have about their own beliefs and that religion really does ride on fear. Wow, even as i’m writing this Mother Teresa could be burning in hell right now and Ted Bundy could be in heaven. What a bunch of baloney. Jesus spoke in parables so that only the spiritually enlightened would be able to understand his true message.

    I go by what has the most evidence, not blind faith. Reincarnation has way more circumstantial evidence then athiesm or fundamentalism has that i’ve seen. Ian Stevenson and many others did extensive research on reincarnation and the way he did his research ruled out all other explanations except a real past life experience. Such as birth marks and other physical defects that matched similar injuries the children described. James Leniger is another convincing story to me as well. Including my own experiences. What do religious people have as evidence? Their evidence is some story scammers like Bill Wiese and Mary Baxter could have easily made up and biblical quotes. The evidence from the “New Age” side is way more convincing to me. I don’t know why my beliefs are called “New Age” because they are much older than the rubbish religion people follow today.

  81. RoyalPriest says:

    Dear All,

    God is love and He showed that all to us by giving up His 1 and only Son, Jesus, to be tortured, humiliated and killed on the cross, so that we would be free from Satan’s clutches. With that one act of love, Jesus has set us all free.

    Free from fear. Free from sickness and diseases. Free from poverty and lack. Free from hurts that we might have started or fell into. Free from guilt. Free from condemnation. Free from all the bad effects of our past and present mistakes. Free to do something right. We are given a clean slate in our lives, as if we are starting a new life. It is like being born a new person, having our past erased. Free to live our lives in a different way, a better way. And God gives us Holy Spirit to be able to live the best life possible. To live the way we were created, to live out our purpose, a Godly, full of excitement, adventure, joyful life.

    This is what God is offering to us. This is what a life of being His child is. It is not a trouble-free life. But an overcoming life. A victorious life. A conquering life. Ever wanted to overcome, be victorious and conquer any problems you face? Finally put an end to a never ending circle of bad circumstances because somehow in the past, you realized you started it, or got pushed into it, or was born into it, and you tried everything in your power to get out but still could not get out of it? Ever desired to be healed from a sickness that has no cure? Get out of lack or poverty? God is offering that to you and all of us.

    Just call on Jesus with all your heart and mind to receive this gift. Call on Him without ceasing and He will surely come and give you His gift of life. It is a whole empowering package that He gives you so that you will be able to live a great life. God will make you sinless so you have a fresh new start in life and live a holy life. God will give you faith in Him. God will give you His Lordship so that He can direct you towards the right choices. God will give you repentance and forgiveness, which is the power to be victorious over sin your whole life. He will give you baptism to give you strong convictions to live according to your purpose. God will give you meaning in your life. God will give you His Word and Prayer to be able to always communicate with Him at any time. God will give you His children/His church to help you continue the life He has promised you. People whom God will use to encourage you, help you up when you are down, give you hope in hopeless situations, increase your faith and not quit. Also the best thing in the power package of life that God will give is, God will give you Himself, His Holy Spirit. You are literally a super powerful child of God because He will be with you always as you live the greatest life that you can ever live.

    This is the God of the Bible that I know. This is the God that Bill is trying to help his readers or TV viewers choose. I pray that somehow, Holy Spirit would touch your hearts and minds, and you would have a divine encounter with Him, so that you would be able to choose wisely about how you will live your short lives on Earth. As Bill says in his interviews, I pray you choose life, I pray you choose Jesus.

    If you do not, then that is your choice. God does not force anyone to choose Him. He gave us all the gift of free will, the ability to decide for ourselves, and He will never retract that gift. Even if our decisions causes more destruction and pain and wars and poverty and sickness, He will never retract that gift. God will just keep crying for you, and patiently wait that somehow in the future you would come running back to Him for help, and receive His wonderful gift of life.

    If you did choose God, I congratulate you for making the best decision in your life! Get immediately in touch with a Bible believing church. Use the web to find such a church nearest your location or if you have a Christian friend, tell him/her about the decision you made. Get a Bible and start reading the book of John. Try to read it everyday, and ask God to help you understand it. It is His love letter to you. God will never quit on you. Just don’t quit on Him. Keep seeking Him and you will find Him. Amen.

  82. JXS says:

    My opinion is that Bill Wiese is a liar he, just like his his counterpart, Mary Baxter didn’t even have a real NDE, let me guess they were “special” and god magically took them out of their bodies to experience heaven and hell to tell everyone about the “reality” of an “eternal hell” with the classical “brimestone & fire” surroundings. I would suggest looking up about people who really did flatline and had a REAL NDE. If you want to know what “hell” is really like and a real NDE experience than google Howard Storm, who i believe is the real deal, he ended up in this very dark and distant place and the “demons” tormenting him were really negative people. He called for Jesus even though he was a hardcore athiest for his 38 years of life and Jesus took him out of this DARK AND COLD HELL to show him heaven. Howard Storm didn’t end up in hell because of “not believing in god” or “not believing in Jesus” but because he lived a selfish life and treated many people in his life badly.

    I was born in a traditional christian family myself and held many of those beliefs myself until a series of strange events started happening to me which first started shortly after my brother died not too long ago (he was gay and not very religious) my mom had a dream 2 weeks before he died describing in exact detail how he would die and everything that really happened, like the highway he was killed on, where his body was found, the exact model and color of the truck that hit him and even the bar he was at (he rarely went there) but he went there that night and it was the last place he was at before he got hit by the truck, weird and scary but true. He than started coming to me in dreams telling me he was in a better place and not to greive for him. He came to someone we barely knew in their dreams and told the person to give mom white roses for mother’s day and this person in shock gave my mom the white roses for mother’s day, NO ONE, especially this person had no way of knowing this information and most certainly no reason to buy the white roses for my mom, my mom never even knew this person. This was just one thing of many other events that followed, but according to my “bible thumping religion” this was not possible, my brother should be in hell, he was gay, never repented of this “sin” and was not even remotely religious but he was still a decent, caring person who always put others before himself. There were even stranger “supernatural” events that followed with my deceased brother, and than even more so when my dad passed away from cancer shortly after my brother died that my “religious beliefs” could not explain so all of a sudden i guess i became obsessed with trying to find answers on my own independent of the baloney i was being fed over the years.

    The more i studied about the bibles history, the contradictions in it and the misunderstood parables i realized alot the bible’s history was subject to change by man over the years, changes that were made long after the passing of Jesus, regular men trying to sell their own religious beliefs and deciding what should be in the bible and what shouldn’t. I found that many biblical scholars acknowledge that we have no way of knowing what was in the original documents for the bible and probally never will.

    I didn’t look at some website or book deliberately trying to contradict my beliefs because i “didn’t want to believe them”, it seems the real truth through god was trying to find me. I think it is easier for many christians to say repititious verses from the bible and believe that the only way to heaven is through “faith in Jesus alone” because it is the easy way out rather than taking responsibility for their own actions and wrongdoings to other people, after all it is much tougher to be a decent person than a bad person. It is much tougher to be unselfish and standing up for what is right (even if everyone else will hate you for it) than it is to give in to the crowd, and it is much easier to be selfish as well. So yes, the get out of jail free card through Jesus is a much easier sell, that way the white supremesist christians, bigots, gossipers, murderers, rapists, child molesters, people who systematically harass others can still go to heaven, ah how pretty. I have a funny feeling people like Bill Wiese and Mary K Baxter will visit the real “dark and cold” hell when they pass on and it will be much worse than the “fire and brimestone” hell they were never at to begin with.

  83. Steve says:

    Hey. Sorry for the bad language here. I am an educated person, but you fucking christians NEVER listen to reason.

    Remember the verse from the bible about BAD FRUIT = BAD TREE. GOOD FRUIT = GOOD TREE. Now fucking listen to me. There is NOTHING good about the hell doctrine, or at least the eternal hell doctrine.

    If ‘God’ even sent one soul to be tortured for eternity, he is EVIL. I know he is not and through Jesus Christ ALL will be redeemed eventually. Dont give me shit about it being out of Gods hands, because if this were true he would not be omnipotent, and I know he is.

    Eternal hell is a result of the church wanting to control people through fear and has NOTHING to do with teachings of Jesus. I would not want to follow a God who sent most people to hell, he can send me to hell too the bastard. But God is NOT like that.

    How can you love a God that will send your brother, mother children etc to hell even if their only sin is not believing in Jesus? Thats HORRIBLE. WISE UP people and use the minds GOD GIVE YOU to see through this bullshit.

    God punishes justly, in this life and the next, but eternal hell is NOT a just punishment for anyone. Come on people, wake up. What you are doing in assuming non christians go to hell is a form of JUDGEMENT.

    Humans are not allowed to judge, that is Gods job, and you do it on a daily basis. The reason you can never offer any logical arguments is because you are brain washed and in denial.

    I have said enough. Fuck you, you judgemental, hell preaching bastards. You will get your commupance, but the difference between you and me is that I believe your commupance will NOT be eternal. You make me so angry and frustrated that you cant THINK. Whatever, im going to bed

    • highrise says:

      It’s hard not to be frustrated by it all. Just remember it is all part of God’s plan and everything according to His will (Eph 1:11). He doesn’t need everyone to see the truth right now, otherwise we would all be able to pick up a bible and understand everything in it. He “blinds” and “gives” knowledge to whomever He wants and whenever He deems appropriate. Eventually EVERYONE will learn righteousness (Is 26:9).

      • Phillip says:

        AMEN highrise. Why churches fail so miserably to even acknowledge verses like Isa 26:9 is beyond me. Well, evidently it’s not their eon for salvation, but it will come.

  84. JXS says:

    I agree with you Steve 100 percent. I am shocked by the amount of people on here that believe Bill Wiese nonsense. The reason they believe it is the same reason they believe in their fundamentalist doctrine, because THEY WANT TO BELIEVE IT. Like i said before it is easier to believe in eternal life heaven/hell and believing Jesus already did the work for them and blaming satan for the world’s problems’ rather than to actually make the effort to be a decent person, which even i will admit is very tough. According to their beliefs stealing a cookie when you were a kid is the same level of an “eternal hell” deserving sin as someone who brutally raped and murdered 50 women because “we all fall short of the glory of god”. There are many true spiritual messages in the bible but they are taken of context from their true meanings, one of the reasons there are so many different denominations to begin with.

    Maybe i should write a book making up a story about an eternal brimestone and fire hell with giant spiders, burning souls, goblins and demons with pitchforks. Maybe than i can make enough money to quit my job than i can preach to other people around the nation about my experiences to further sell my book.

    Don’t let it bother you too much Steve, its the narrow-minded fundamentalists that usually go to the darker realms when they pass on to the next world to begin with. I am so glad i finally disassociated myself with these so called “christians” and that god showed me the truth through my own experiences.

  85. Steve says:

    Yes. I am glad there are some people out there willing to use their minds and think. I avoid so called ‘christians’ like the plague, their thinking is so warped. To be honest it has bothered me for a while. If someone is happy to go to heaven while the rest of their family and friends burn and hell, then they have no concience. Period. Or else deep down they believe it is bullshit but out of fear will repress that. God created us in his own image, and we have a sense of justice in line with His. God is not pol pot, saddam hussein, or stalin, he is God, and he cares about your actions and the content of your character, not about what you believe and worship him or not. I believe this because deep down I know its true. We may all have bad, awful thoughts, but he gave us a concience so we dont act out out primal urges. Anyway, I have said enough for now. So called Christians frighten me, because in the past large portions of the population have been caught up in a mass delusion (national socialism, communism), only to cause misery for others and eventually their own self destruction.

  86. mike mosher says:

    These people are frauds,they are out to make money ,so they conjure up a story maybe from a bad dream ,or just a good imagination and they try to cash in on it,maybe they,ve watched one to many horror flicks,lol! For example Jessee Duplantis who claims to have been transported to heaven,mu goodness people will believe anything . Check out the homes some of these people live in ,i bet their multi million dollar places.

  87. Jay says:

    If God is so compassionate, why would he even think about sending anyone to hell? I mean, I’m not the most compassionate guy but if I was driving down the road on a rainy night and saw my worst enemy laying on the side of the road, even I would stop to help him out. So what’s with this “Believe in me! Bow down and worship me” stuff? Is the Christian God the ultimate narcissist?

    Also, one of the things that I’ve always wondered…if Satan and his demons were cast out from heaven, what the hell kind of place is heaven?

  88. Steve A says:

    God is compassionate. If you are not with God, then hell is the alternative. There is no cozy place outside of God’s love and God has provided the way back to Himself. The devil, on the other hand, does not like you and doesnt care whether or not you like him- he only wants you to not do God’s will.

    • apocatastasis says:

      A real compassionate God is the one of the bible who will show mercy on us till we find salvation. Not this turn or burn nonsense the churches teach. I prefer the original greek bible over the KJV or other trash you fundies use. Sealing someones eternal fate after a series of a couple years is cruelty at its worse.

  89. Phillip says:

    Bill Weise is a two face lying hypocrite. This man can’t keep his story straight. Do people realize that there is rebuttal writing of his claim of this so called trip he supposedly made? It can be read at bibletruths.com

    Now, for those who think the story of Lazrus and rich man prove hell are being misled. The story of this is God telling the Pharisees that the blessing that was given to them will be taken away and given back to the poor jews and gentiles. Had this story been literally true, do you really think a drop of water could provide and relief? Is heaven ABRAHAM’S BOSOM? You think you will be watching those in this pagan hell on some big screen tv? Come on people! And not only that, this story speaks NOTHING about any sin. So then if this story is literally true, then all poor people go to heaven and all rich people go to this place called hell. HOW REDUNDANT. If the wages of sin is torment in a place of LITERAL fire, THEN CHRIST DID NOT PAY OUR SIN DEBT!! And if hell is real then WHY wasn’t this warning made perfectly clear in the garden of eden? God PLAINLY STATED that by eating of the fruit they will SURELY DIE!! Since when is DEATH DEFINE AS LIFE IN A PLACE CALLED HELL? AND when God called all his creation GOOD, is it conceivable that God included hell as a place that was GOOD? The doctrine of hell is foolish nonsense. PERIOD!! And the rabbit hole goes much deeper.

  90. JS says:

    If it is obvious that you do not even proofread what you are writing to be able to be understood by the reader, why do we trust that you read, understand and know the Bible in a way that you are absolutely sure of what did or did not actually happen? I mean, really?

    • Phillip says:

      The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word ‘brimstone’ or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated ‘brimstone’ is exactly the same word THEION which means ‘divine.’ Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer’s Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine. To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a lake of fire and brimstone would mean a lake of divine purification. The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing about eternal torment is associated with it. The Greek word for fire is pur. Strong’s Concordant of the Bible #4442.This is where we get our english word purify. The lake of fire is no more than a purification process that every man will endure. (Mark 9:49)So the lake of fire is symbolic and it is not a literal fire. ETERNITY: Make no mistake about it, the Protestant Church has and always will bow to the authority of the Roman Church. No matter how many adjustments, additions, or deletions they make to their Roman heritage, they are still, nonetheless, Roman to the core. Every time you open your King James Bible and believe that its pages are “inerrant,” you bow to the Catholic Church. “Eternity” is not an Hebrew word, neither is it Greek, nor English. Then why is it found in your King James Bible? Who put it there and from where did it come? Our [now] English words “eternal” and “eternity” come from the Latin word aevum. Dictionaries define this word as meaning, “lifetime, life, age, mankind living at a particular time.” From aevum comes aeviternus and the adjective aeternus which is our English word …eternal. The doctrine of “everlasting punishment” is based on this LATIN word borrowed from the CATHOLIC Vulgate Bible. The doctrine came from Egypt, from where it was borrowed by the Greeks. and passed on to the Romans. In order for the Catholic Church to hold on to this pagan doctrine, so as to have almost supernatural power over the people by the use of this fear doctrine, they found it needful to find a way to interject this most damnable of all pagan doctrines, into the very translation of the Scriptures themselves. We will say God is love…BUT, he is also just and must punish sinners 4ever. YOU DEMEAN GOD’S GREATEST EXPRESSION OF LOVE IN HIS SON’S SACRIFICIAL DEATH FOR ALL MANKIND! Talk about justice!? How UNJUST this is to HIM who propitiated the sins of the whole world, who gave His life as a ransom FOR ALL 1Jn 2:2, 1 Tim2:6. To recognize hell’s remedial purpose in no way contradicts his holiness, justice, or sacrifice. It actually MAGNIFIES them. How can we qualify or limit A LOVE THAT never fails! 1Cor 13:8 If God is love 1Jn 4:8 and is NEVER vengeful You say it’s forever? in torment of hell. What a load a crap! His anger is but for a moment Ps 30:5 Why is it on earth God’s anger lasts but for a moment, and his favor is for life, but after his death His favor is not even a moment and his anger is forever? How is it possible God’s love can change so drastically at the drop of a hat? Lam 3:31 For the LORD will [NOT] cast off [FOR EVER]

      “Punishment” for Sinners?
      Let’s start by looking at two Greek words:

      Kolasin: Chastisement, Root Word is Kolos and literally means “to prune” The Correction is with a view to helping the offender. It is usually incorrectly rendered Punishment. Matt. 25:46 (Eonian Chastisement)

      Timoria: Punishment or Penalty; It means the vindictive character of punishment that only satisfies the inflictor of it. Acts. 4:21 “Find no way of punishing them”.

      PUNISHING VS. CHASTENING: While considering all of the hellfire and brimstone material disseminated by Christian teachers, preachers, writers, and educators around the world, just how many hundreds of times do you suppose the word “punishment” is used in the entire New Testament with regards to sinners? Hundreds? Would you believe less than fifty? Would you believe less than ten? Would you believe ONCE? That’s right, the answer is one time.

      “Of how much more punishment [Gk: timoria], suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Heb. 10:29).

      I can assure you that those who have committed the above crime towards the Lord are few indeed. Most of humanity that will be judged in the lake of fire have NEVER EVEN HEARD of Jesus Christ, let alone, “trodden underfoot the Son of God, and counted the blood of the covenant, an UNHOLY thing, and done DESPITE unto the Spirit of grace.” Most have never even heard of such sins, let alone committed them.

      This is a most powerful Scripture to be sure, but it does not speak of “eternal” punishment, and it is the ONLY SCRIPTURE IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT that uses the word “punishment” with reference to punishing sinners!

      There are three other places in the KJV that the word “punish” or “punished” is used correctly. They are Acts 4:21; 22:5; and 26:11 where it Saul (later Paul) is punishing not sinners, but members of the church, the followers of Christ.

      II Thes. 1:9 should be translated, “eonian extermination” and not “punished … everlasting.”

      II Peter 2:4 & 9 should both be “chastening” as it is the same Greek word kolazo and not timoria which means punish.

      The KJV uses “punished” in verse nine, which should be “chasten,” and ironically it doesn’t even translate the Greek word kolazo (chasten) in verse four — the KJV translators left it out completely. I suppose the translators thought that it was redundant to say, “chastening judging.” But then again, they didn’t bother to look at II Cor. 2:6 which should read “rebuke” (another Greek word, epitimia), not “punish.”

      And lastly, I Pet. 2:14 should read “vengeance” (Still another Greek word, ekdikēsis), and not punishment.

      So in the case of “punishment” we have but ONE Scripture to deal with, and we will deal with it.

      This next fact doesn’t necessarily “prove” anything, it’s just the way my mind works. Jesus Christ said:

      “O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the ABUNDANCE of the heart the MOUTH SPEAKS” (Mat. 12:34).

      I think we all understand that statement: What is heaviest and most dominant on our heart is what we talk about the most.

      Now then, my observation. We learned of the one time that punishment is used in reference to sinners. Would you all be interested in knowing how many times the opposite of punishment is used? Okay, the word “mercy” (-ies, -iful) is found in the Bible over THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY times! Could it be that the “abundance of God’s heart” consists of many more MERCIES than it does of vengeance and punishment?

      Oh you carnal minded people, when will you ever learn? Learn the scriptures in the original form that they were written.

  91. Dave says:

    I believe Bill’s account of 23 minutes in hell. There is the argument that a loving God would never send people that He loves to a place like hell. Consider the people of Sodom & Gommorrah. God loved them as much as He loves you. The Philistines that were wiped out after David slew Goliath. The Egyptians that were killed when the Nile was again allowed to flow back together after the Israelites & Moses passed through. The 6 million jews (God’s chosen people) killed at the hands of the Nazi’s. These are only a few of the instances that a loving God allowed people to die a horrible death. People that He loved! He loves all of us, ’tis true. But, If God’s Son, whom He allowed to be crucified, is not your Savior, you too will be a statistic in the mind of God. Hell was created for Satan and his angels that were thrown out of heaven before the world was created. It is not God’s will that anyone should have to go to hell. However, God is holy, and just and cannot allow sin to enter heaven. So, if your sins are not forgiven and you do not call upon the name of the Lord and get saved, you will not enter heaven. The other alternative is hell. Bill’s dream is God’s way of using him to get a final warning out to warn those who reject Christ that hell is very real and people are in grave danger of ending up there. The Bible says that there will be many scoffers in the last days, and you people are one of many living proofs that the Bible is true. WAKE UP PEOPLE! Jesus Christ will soon break open the eastern sky and the trumpet will sound, and the dead in Christ will rise; then those who are alive that have trusted Christ as Savior will join the Lord in the sky and will be forever with the Lord.

  92. Phillip says:

    Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The Greek reads: experiencing the justice of fire eonian. Well just how long does this eonian/aionios fire last? Is it really eternal as the Authorized Version contends? There is NO FIRE burning in Palestine since the days of Sodom anywhere, let along in the vicinity of these ancient cities. The best archaeologists can discern, Sodom is located at the bottom of what is now a sea. Ezekiel 16:55 When your sisters, SODOM and her daughters, shall RETURN TO THEIR FORMER ESTATE, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then you [Jerusalem] shall return to your former estate.The judgment of God against Sodom was decidedly not, ETERNAL. Here is clear Scriptural evidence and proof that aion/aionios DO NOT MEAN ETERNAL OR ENDLESS TIME.

  93. Phillip says:

    II Thes. 2:16 and has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace. Console is defined as, To allay sorrow or grief of. Hope is defined as, To wish for something with expectations of its fulfillment. NOW THEN, according to this inane KJV translation of this verse, just how LONG are we going to have our SORROW AND GRIEF ALLAYED? How long must we HOPE before we have our hope fulfilled? For ALL ETERNITY? Nonsense. The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. pro chronon aionion means BEFORE times eonian. Since this Scripture tells us that there was time before eonian, eionian CANNOT possibly mean eternal, for NOTHING can be before eternity. Here then is absolute proof from the Scriptures themselves that an aion is an AGE or a PARTICULAR PERIOD There was time BEFORE the aions I Cor. 2:7, BEFORE the eons. Therefore, NOT eternal God MADE the aions Heb. 1:2, MAKES the eons. Therefore, NOT eternal There were aions in the PAST Col. 1:26, hid FROM eons. Therefore, NOT eternal This PRESENT age is called an aion Gal. 1:4, the PRESENT wicked eon. Therefore, NOT eternal. This PRESENT age will come to an END Mat. 24:3, The END or conclusion]of the eon. Therefore, NOT eternal. There is coming another aion AFTER this present aion Luke 18:30, the eon TO COME. Therefore, NOT eternal There are, in fact, coming multiples or FUTURE AIONS Eph. 2:7, the ONCOMING AIONS. Therefore, NOT eternal The Scriptural usage of the words aion aions and aionios prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Greek aions are NOT English eternities.NIV Bible and the NIV Concordance are brought to you by Zondervan, a Christian Publishing GIANT, a Division of HarperCollins, which also publishes the SATANIC BIBLE. Give it up, and begin treating your Heavenly Father and His HOLY WORDS with dignity and respect!!! The doctrine of hell is an outright lie.

    • Adam says:

      Very well put Phillip. I believe the doctrine of Hell is more destructive than any other doctrine out there. I believe that God calls us by love, not fear. Jesus completed the work, and there is nothing that I can do, that can separate me from the love of God.

  94. Phillip says:

    May the Lord bless you all and lead you into the truth.

    Peace

  95. Steve says:

    DAVE… FUCK OFF YOU RETARD. I HAVE GIVEN UP ON REASONED LOGIC WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU

  96. Steve says:

    AND PHILIP CAN FUCK OFF TOO

  97. Steve says:

    SORRY PHILIP NOT YOU I CONFUSED YOU WITH SOME BIBLE BASHING HELL PREACHING RETARD. SORRY PHILIP!

  98. Jay says:

    Again, I ask, if Satan and his demons were cast out from heaven, what the hell kind of place is heaven? And no long-winded answers, please. That only proves to me you’re talking out of your ass…which is the impression I got when I used to go to church…

  99. Phillip says:

    Jay, No long winded answer? This tells me you really don’t care to know, but looking for a fight. That is what I gathered from your question. Is everything answered in a few words, or does it take a deeper study in God word to grasp an understanding? Did you go all the way through school in two weeks, or did it take 14 years of so to graduate high school? Do you think there is a one verse, one sentence answer to everything? Or should we make a whole entire doctrine out of one verse? First of all what you have been told about Satan being cast out of heaven as a perfect being is nonsense. Now what I’m about to say may blow your mind. It WILL NOT even compare to what ANY clergy man will ever tell you. Follow closely.

    ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer” Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how a perfect Lucifer changed himself into Lucifer the Devil.

    Isa. 14:-12-14 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    Ezek. 28:12-17

    This, we are told, is a perfect description of how perfect Lucifer, a shining light bringing archangel/cherub, became Satan the Devil. Is there any truth to this theory? Let’s see.

    Prepare yourself for a revelation: Satan was never perfect and then decided by his phantom free will to become a devil. The problem with this “Lucifer fell” theory is twofold: poor translation. First Isaiah 14. To whom is God addressing Himself in these verses we quoted above? That you shall take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON…” (Ver. 4)God is speaking of and to and about, “the King of Babylon,” not Lucifer, not Satan, not a cherub. And God tells us the end of this man’s reign:

    Your pomp is brought down to the grave [Satan never died or was put in a grave], and the noise of your viols [harps or lutes]: the worm [or maggots] is spread under you [can maggots eat a spirit body], and the worms cover you” (Ver. 11)But is not this “Lucifer” of verse 14 Satan the Devil? This next verse is where theologians believe God stops speaking of the King of Babylon and begins speaking of the origin of Satan.

    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations! (Ver. 12)

    Notice that back in verse 4 God says to take up this proverb against the “king of Babylon.” Next let’s pick up this proverb in verse 10 after all the “trees” (different people which feared the king), are at rest because of the king’s demise, and see if this “Lucifer theory” fits into these verses without doing irreparable damage to the kings English:

    All they shall speak and say unto thee [king of Babylon], Art thou [king of Babylon] also become weak as we? Art thou [king of Babylon] become like unto us [mere mortals and not gods from heaven]. Thy [king of Babylon] pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy [king of Babylon] viols: the worm is spread under thee [king of Babylon], and the worms cover thee [king of Babylon]. How art thou [king of Babylon] fallen from heaven, O Lucifer…”?!?

    What is this? How can, the king of Babylon,(made reference to eight times in two sentences), suddenly turn into “Lucifer” in the middle of a sentence? And where are we ever told that Lucifer is a proper name for Satan? I am going to shine some LIGHT on this “O Lucifer, son of the morning star” business, and we can all watch Lucifer disappear in the dawn’s early light. It is but another heresy from the Dark Ages that crept into the hallowed musty halls of the Church. This is a little lengthy, but it is also one of the most intriguing bits of deception your will ever see exposed, so I will take the time to debunk it.

    Just what is the Hebrew word found in the manuscripts that the translators turned into the Latin word Lucifer? It is very interesting. If you have a Strong’s Concordance, look up this word Lucifer. Right after the word Lucifer we are given a definition before we ever go to the Dictionary to find the meaning. Here is what you will find: Lucifer (lu’sif-ur)1 Title applied to king of Babylon. Clearly the editor of Strong’s Concordance realized that this word (whatever it means) is to be applied to the king of Babylon, and NOT TO SATAN THE DEVIL!

    We are told that the word in question is Strong’s #1966 which is heylel, from 1984 [halal] (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:–Lucifer. (Out of my strong concordance)

    What a web of deceit is woven in this light bringing brightness morning star Lucifer theory. This word Lucifer appears NO other place in Scripture. Was Satan ever spoken of as a light-bringing PERFECT archangel? No.

    And no marvel; for Satan himself is TRANSFORMED into an angel of light II Cor. 11:14

    Satan is NOT an angel of light, neither has he ever been! It is the false apostles, DECEITFUL workers Ver 13, that DECEIVE people into believing lies. Satan appears as an angel of light to the world; he is transformed into an angel of light, but it is an illusion, it is not true, it is a DECEPTION!Just like this 23 min in hell story. It’s A LIE!

    Lucifer is the Latin Vulgate translation of the word xosphoruos in the Septuagint, which is a Greek version of the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12, which the King James translators then translated over into the English as Lucifer.

    The Latin and the Greek, as well as a supposed form of a Hebrew word in verse 12 mean bright shiner or “shining one.” The problem is, however, that Isa.14:12 was not written in Latin or Greek, but Hebrew. And I assure you that lucifer is not a Hebrew word, nor is it an English translation of a Hebrew word. Lucifer is Latin, and is related to a group of Latin derived English words including lucid, luciferin and luciferose, as we saw defined above, all of which suggest brightness or shining. Likewise xosphoros in the Greek derived English words such as, fluorescence and phosphorescence.

    But, there seems to be no Hebrew or Aramaic text in which there is a word in this verse to correspond. What we find in all such texts is the word hehlehl, eill, which is a form of the Hebrew stem yah-lahl, ill. And what is the meaning of ill? Are you ready? It means HOWL. That’s right, Lucifer turns out to be nothing more than a howl (maybe of hot air)!

    Even such an eminent translator as Rotherham seemed to follow the Septuagint in this verse, however, from his comments within parenthesis, it is clear that he was fully aware of the fact that whatever this word meant, it was referring to none other than the context of these verses which is Babylon and not Satan: How has thou (Babylon—see context) fallen from heaven, O Shining One (O howl)—Son of the Dawn! (Babylon conspicuous as Venus). Hewn down to the earth, O crusher of nations.”

    Clearly the reference is to Babylon and none other. Here’s a list the King James renderings of the word that is found in the Hebrew texts and transliterations of its various forms in occurrence in the KJV Bible. Now you can be the judge. In all Hebrew or Aramaic texts of Isa. 14:12, the only word found is heh-lehl, eill, which is a form of the Hebrew stem yah-lahl, ill, meaning howl.I’ll just give a few so you’ll get my drift.

    Isa. 13:6 eiliu Howl ye
    Isa. 14:31 eili Howl
    Isa. 15:3 iilil shall howl
    Isa. 23:14 eililu Howl ye
    Jer. 48:20 eilili Howl
    Jer. 51:8 eililu howl
    Hos. 7:14 iililu They howled
    Isa. 14:12 eill Lucifer (??)

    I don’t believe one has to be a Hebrew scholar to see at a glance that “Lucifer” is totally out of place in this list. The meaning of this word is clear; eill is a verb that means HOWL, and not a noun than can be twisted into a personal name such as lucifer!

    Is there no end to the religious lies fostered on the naive Church? I assure you there is an end, and that end may be soon in sight!

    Isa. 12:4, the subject is, “the king of Babylon,” and not Satan or some Lucifer of man’s imagination. Babylon, the greatest kingdom of nations in the history of the world is COMING DOWN TO THE GRAVE!

    So was Satan the devil really PERFECT in his ways until iniquity was found in him? NO!! He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins FROM THE BEGINNING… I John 3:8 He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING… John 8:44 There is no righteous light-bringing Satan, and there never was a righteous light-bringing Satan. Lucifer the light-bringing sinless Satan is a Christian HOAX!

    “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.”

  100. Phillip says:

    If you can receive these few facts of the gospel as facts, then you are far ahead of all the theologians, cclergy, and doctors on earth.

    The Gospel in 5 verses:
    1. God WILLS that all mankind be SAVED (I Tim.2:4).
    2.1 Tim 4:10 But will God’s will be done?
    3. Thy WILL B-E DONE… (Mat. 6:10).
    4. God IS LOVE (I John 4:8). But will God’s love fail to save all humanity?
    5. LOVE N-E-V-E-R FAILS (I Cor. 13:10)

  101. Phillip says:

    The origins of the hell doctrine has their deep roots.It’s quite obvious where the origins of the hell doctrine came from, and the majority of the world is completely oblivious to it.

    The Christian philosopher Origen (AD 230) said that literal terrors of hell were false, but they ought to be publicized in order to scare simple believers in order to keep them from evil deeds.

    Polybius (120 BC) said since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires, irrational passions, and violence there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear and terror of the invisible world.

    Sextus Empiricus 160-210 AD calls them poetic fables of hell and Cicero 106 BC speaks of them as silly absurdities and fables.

    • JS says:

      Phillip – Just curious, it is obvious you have done a lot of research and study – if you do mind being asked, did you go to a Bible College?

  102. Tom says:

    I’m listening to a podcast of this Bill Wiese nutcase on Coast To Coast AM (nutcase central). He just said “God didn’t create Hell for man to go to.” …And yet people are supposedly going there. Logically, if both of these concepts are fact, then that means “God” is in error and is not an infallible, all-powerful being as we are led to believe.

  103. Phillip says:

    No, never been to bible college. Bible colleges will never teach these things.It just takes a LOT of study, and research with an open mind. It all began with a couple questions. Why would any loving God create anyone knowing before hand they would suffer such a fate, and if the wages of sin is eternal torment, why didn’t God make this perfectly clear from the very beginning. God simply told Adam if they eat of the fruit, they will surely die, not suffer forever. It just doesn’t add up.

    Paul’s message is so gracious that few humans can stomach it. Mankind-at- large wants to earn its salvation, and so the message that Christ accomplished all at the cross actually repels most people—especially religious people, and keeps them from believing it.

    • JS says:

      It is a very difficult thing for people to accept – that is what Christ accomplished on the cross – you are right – and so many over so many years have built up so many “ways” to get there to satisfy their lack of acceptance of this idea.

      Did you have to study other/archaic/Aramaic languages in order to do such deep study? Do you teach?

      • Phillip says:

        Yes a little Aramaic. And the Aramaic bible has no mention of the word hell either. Neither the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic has the concept of eternal punishment. The word eternal was never even a word till a man named Jerome made it up.

        I really don’t consider myself as a teacher, but if that’s the way God is leading me to, then maybe so. But I am sure that the things I say can easily teach others, provided people are willing to listen. I know others who actually do teach this, and have taught this longer than I have even been alive. And these people are VERY GOOD at debunking the modern day Pharisee (preacher). These people have dedicated their lives with this. I have seen these people debate and literally put them to shame. And what’s even more interesting, they don’t even ask for a dime. That’s another thing. Tithing is also not biblical.

  104. Phillip says:

    Tom: I have heard that before. But I Always respond with a question to this kind of thinking. When was this place of hell created? And if it’s not made for man in the first place, then why do they say man will go there? Didn’t God call all his creation good? Is it conceivable that God created this place also and called it good? Do people call such a place GOOD? People think God created this place to punish endlessly, mercilessly for absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever. Hell is only the grave. Strong’s concordance #86 Hades, meaning grave. It has no mention of any kind of fire.

  105. JS says:

    I would really, really like to see the Aramaic Bible – any info on how to get it?

  106. Phillip says:

    You won’t find it in any book store. You won’t find the Concordant Literal New Testament either. I got my CLNT from concordant.org

    Here is a video that speaks of all the different translations that have no mention of hell in it from cover to cover

  107. Phillip says:

    But your best bet is to get a Greek bible. It is the original first writings. Let me present you with this bit of factual and historical information. Aramaic was a Semite language known since the 9th century B.C. (remember that David lived five or six hundred years earlier than this), and Moses who is credited with writing the first five books of the Bible lived considerably earlier than King David. Certainly long before the ninth century which is the first historical acquaintance with the language of Aramaic.Actually the language of Aramaic was adopted by Jews, however not before the first Scriptures were written, but rather after the Babylonian exile! Historians tell us that the Aramaic language looked more like the square Hebrew alphabet as distinguished from the early Hebrew alphabet.

  108. Jay says:

    Again, I ask, if Satan and his demons were cast out from heaven, what the hell kind of place is heaven? And no long-winded answers, please. That only proves to me you’re talking out of your ass…which is the impression I got when I used to go to church…

    Phillip says:
    July 13, 2010 at 5:04 am
    Jay, No long winded answer? This tells me you really don’t care to know, but looking for a fight. That is what I gathered from your question. Is everything answered in a few words, or does it take a deeper study in God word to grasp an understanding? Did you go all the way through school in two weeks, or did…
    …ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer” Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how…The Latin and the Greek, as well as a supposed form of a Hebrew word in verse 12 mean bright shiner or “shining one.” The problem is, however, that Isa.14:12 was not written in Latin or Greek, but Hebrew. And I assure you that lucifer is not a Hebrew word, nor is it an English …

    Aw, godammit, I got the long-winded answer…

  109. Phillip says:

    And you could care less about the truth. Just looking for a fight-just as I expected. SATAN WAS NEVER IN HEAVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE. NEVER WAS THERE TO BE CAST DOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE. Now for a little lesson: for the devil sins FROM THE BEGINNING… I John 3:8 He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING… John 8:44

    That’s the problem with people right there, THEY WILL NOT LISTEN, AND THEY ARE TOO LAZY TO READ FOR 10 MINUTES TO GET AN ANSWER. Your a waste of my time. I will not respond to no more of your questions.

  110. Phillip says:

    Jesus was sent to be the savior of the world, and did not, and will not fail to accomplish what he was sent to do. Here is some words of wisdom you will NEVER hear in any church. Jay, one day you will remember this. Mark my word.

  111. A Champ Matt says:

    G’day fellow ‘chuck me 10 cents worth ins’! Love yas all… To have my plug, id like to give yas a bit of a heads up… If you want the real truth, open up your HOLY BIBLE, this book is absolutely amazing. Yeah yeah another churchie you say….Whatever you want to call me, im just like you, a doubting Thomas, very skeptical on any piece of literiture that was written by a man. Through my years of theologian study, involving countless manuscripts and religeous doctrine, moving from houses of worship all across Australia,including mormonism, catholosism, jehovas witnesses,pentecostal churches and jewish synagogues ive come to a ‘grass is green’ conclusion. Christ meaning(messiah)Jesus is our Lord and saviour!(SAVIOUR) being the operative word, saving us from ETERNAL HELL FIRE. DO your research brothers and sisters and then come have a chat.If you think im wrong, do your own research, cos if im right, your in for an eternity of kicking yourself!!!’I wish i had have listened/researched’…. Love yas all brothers and sisters.

  112. Phillip says:

    No such thing as the word eternity Matt. Read my previous posts.

  113. Reynaldo says:

    To My Dear Atheist, God is all of our Father, whether we are angry at him for unexplained tragedies in our life or not… The world is as it is, (when you all question if there is a God why the Holocaust, why the brutal American Slavery system, etc.) all of these horrors are explained by sin… We are born into sin, so we wil do what our father the evil one dictates until we come to a cross point in life that leads us back too God! People cry out to God not when they are rich and everything is going their way, no on the contrary like, spoil little children we go to our Earthly Father’s or Mother’s when we need them, and half the time we neglect them until we do need them; This is the same premise with our Heavenly Father, he just wants all to come too him! Because eternity is a long time to be wrong and to pay for your intellectual choice in utter displacement from your Creator! Intelligence is a gift from a loving Creator that is being used in this supposedly enlightened age to exclude the one who Gave us life and this intelligence! We instead would like to believe an ex-Christian’s rant of evolution (Darwin)… Which ultimately leads the supposed educated that a spinning rock in space cooled off and created life!

  114. Reynaldo says:

    To My Dear Atheist, Also Darwin said that Africans and Austrailian Aborigines were, lower forms of humanity, closer related to the great apes than the Anglo Saxons of Europe, which were more highly evolved! Atheist try to pick apart the Bible quoting all the Old Testament laws that were very harsh indeed, When we are young our Earthly Father’s are much more harsher to their young developing children in order to teach them of absolutes, fire is hot… don’t touch it, in a stern voice, etc. You see My Dear Atheist, there are absolutes and truths that are not transitory or relative… Rain in India or Paris is wet just like it is in the U.S. an absolute that does not change! The Old Testament was very brutal in many aspects because the Creator taught his people alot of do’s and don’ts! God knows all he created all …He does to whom he wants, what he wants… Somethings are not up for discussion with your parents just like it is with our Heavenly Father, You think God didn’t know Hitler wasn’t going to finish his Artistic studies in youth only to pursue his infamous path? By the way, you Atheist are not unintelligent just stubborn, because you believe God doesn’t exist does not matter to him, and when you all meet him you’ll be able to explain your earthly philosophy you all learned in College to him in person and see who wins your philosophical arguments then! While we have breath we all, ( not collective college classes who are taught these fallicies of life, existence and God) but individually must choose which direction we will go… Jesus has answered all of mankinds questions, he has answered the Old Testament, he is the end of all law, he is the culmination of all human existence…. ” He said what many of you miss more poignantly than all of the arguments you try to bring up… When the non-believeing leaders of the Jews tried to trip him up on “What are the greatest of the Commandments”? “Jesus eloquently stated, There only two… Love God with all your heart and soul and obey him, then love your neighbor as yourself, and doing these two you will keep all of the others”! We all know of the ills of the Catholic Church in the past, the Spanish Inquisition, The Catholic Church giving their blessings to the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, their ignoring Hitler’s evils, etc. That is not true religion, over zealous fundmentalism that was practised by those whom burned people in the Salem Witch Trials, etc. Just as Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace and harmony, etc. But is that the Islam that Osama and his ilk are practising? Love your neighbor as yourself and you will not harm your neighbor for anything, you will not covet his wife and committ adultry with her, etc. You will not steal from your neighbor or bear false witness against him, and you would certainly not kill your neighbor if you truly practised Jesus’ tenets! You would always love and forgive which are the true tenets of Godly Religion! Jesus did no wrong, historically our leaders do every evil imaginable as the Bible says ” …every wicked thing a man will thinketh, he will do”! All of my Dear Atheist, you all are very intelligent indeed, Hitler, Stalin and Mao… in modern times have killed more people in history on this planet than all recorded religious zealotry ever has! These things you all know, as I’ve stated most of you are College educated… So saying Religion is the cause of more wars, murders, etc. you know full well is a fallacy! God knew what Hitler was going to do… He knew what Mussollini and Stalin and Mao were going to do, like he knew what Jeffrey Dahmer was going to do, he also knew, the wicked people of the past and what they would do and what they wouldn’t …never repent of their wickedness, so sometimes everyone of them, were slaughtered by David, Gideon, Joshua, etc. If you knew someone was totally evil… and you had the power to stop them as Hitler, ( everyone asks) wouldn’t you kill him, etc. Before he committed such atrocities? God allows all because it is not yet time for his return, when it comes all of these earthly arguments will be for nothing… all will be settled! Atheist say as those in Noah’s day, nothing is going to happen, Noah’s got his poor boys building a big house boat for what? What the heck is rain, that’s impossible water coming from the sky, water is heavier than air isn’t it? The people in Sodom & Gommorrah, did totally sinful things and they perished as well, my Dear Atheist, some of you are mean’t to come out of this misleading philosophy that you learned from jaded College Professors…. You have left the Christianity of your parents, thinking you are now educated and you now know more then them! Read the Gospels for yourselves don’t listen to the arrogance of others, who don’t want you to know the truth… pick it up and investigate Jesus’ words for yourself and ask for God to give you understanding and see won’t he make those pages clear too you! As I said some of you will come back to an understanding of your parents beliefs but not all… This is truly sad to me and other true believers that all we say all we do… will not convince this stubborn modern intellectual mind! My Dear Atheist, Do you know the original definition of the name Fool… It means, one who says there is no God”! As I’ve stated above you all are very educated and I know you would not consider yourselves, to be fools! Never take another’s words for truth when you can investigate for yourselves, there is not one fossil of a missing link… of any of the humanoid or primate bones found they all show DNA of either Human or Ape DNA… There are no mixtures! It takes more belief to believe that all of existence came from nothing that exploded to create our world than to believe that a benevolent Creator made existence!
    The fairytale, Millions of years ago… might as well be …Once upon a time, the Big Bang… foolishness to believe that anything can come into existence without first being fashioned by someone! Why don’t things just pop into our world now, if we are to believe this erroneous theory? I might as well wish for a million dollars and wait for it to just pop up out of thin air! Because this ultimately is what the University Professors who spew this tripe out, want us to believe when we enter their institutions of supposed Higher Learning… That Once Upon a Time, Millions of Years Ago… All was created from Nothing! Forgetting the Laws of Casuality, which they know full well is more exacting than believeing in a plagaristic, misguided, racist, ex-Christian as poor Darwin! This law is not a theory as evolution, but is verifiable in everyday existence, for every cause there is something or someone who has affected that cause! No two ways about it! If someone dies of Lung Cancer and they smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day for twenty or so years, more than likely the cigarettes might have had something to do with it, you think… Shortening their life, you think! The smoker thus causes his own demise by Lung Cancer from the practice of smoking twenty years, until his lungs finally couldn’t heal themselves anymore! Death from drunk drivers, killing innocent pedestrains and other motorist, whom all they were doing was trying to reach their destinations as in any other day… But a Drunk Driver chose to drink, thus loosing control for the last time, and finally causes these innocent people’s lives too end… They would have made it home to work or the movies, etc. If not for someone causing them to die that very moment! Nothing happens without an agent causing it people, That agent for the Big Bang or as I rightfully call it ; was the Lord Saying “Let There Be Light”! Plain and simple the light explodes over the darkness (Bang!) My Dear Atheist, I wish I had everyone of you in front of me too explain every aspect of the Bible that you have questions about so that you could have an objective reference to deduce true belief from! One wiser man than I stated in the past, “People usually believe not what is true but what is convenient for them and attracts them”! Believeing that there is no God because of a Theory of Evolution, or because some misguided Scientist tells you there is no God, etc. is accepting blindly your eternal faith from the hands of someone that does not Love You At All… Only God Loves You! Go Blindly Believeing in someone elses thoughts and when you stand before Jesus on Judgement Day, quoting these foolish theories and philosophies will not hold up in the face of all truth the Word Himself… As John Teaches us, “The Word Became Flesh And Dwelt Among Us”… There was a Jewish Atheist back during the World Wars, Who stated he solved all of philosophies problems in his treatise… Think about that peope… One man out of all time, history, human understanding solved all in his limited time on earth before my Dear Atheist, He killed himself… This is what ultimately is most of you all’s fate, my people… Aheist kill themselves at an alarming high rate over believers of any faith! So Sad to believe that there is nothing more to live for and that nothing awaits you, be sure of your own beliefs before you take that eternal journey, don’t accept other’s, know it all’s philosophies, don’t even accept my words, but investigate your only path, by picking the Bible up yourself and if it makes no sense still, then all I can say is God Bless You, Anyway! God is Love, he created all of us to be his Children, This is the “True Meaning of Life”, simply to be God’s Children, so that he could love us and teach us his ways! It was said by another wiser than I, “If you want the simple or obvious to be complicated, let a philosopher explain it”!
    The Bible is the Infallible Word of Our Heavenly Father, All I can say to my Dear Atheist Brethren, is investigate it for yourselves, don’t take my word or anyother’s of it’s accuracy or inaccuracy, read for yourselves!

  115. Phillip says:

    If King James Bible is the “PERFECT” word of God as you suggest, why is it that when one goes to a Bible Book Store, ALL OF THE KING JAMES BIBLES for sale are MISSING FOURTEEN BOOKS that were in the 1611 Edition? Why is that??? Do you have a 1611 Edition of the King James Bible? I do. When is the last time you read the “The Idole Bel and the Dragon” in the King James Bible? When?It is found between the book, “The Prayer of Manasseh” and “The Story of Susanna.” At what point in time was the King James Bible the PERFECT word of God as you fundamental Christians dogmatically state? When? First edition? Second? Third? Is it now, finally, the PERFECT word of God? Even the translators THEMSELVES knew for a fact that their translation was FAR FROM PERFECT. Translations are only men’s best attempt to translate ancient and dead languages into modern languages. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSLATE ANYTHING ‘PERFECTLY’ FROM ANY LANGUAGE INTO ANOTHER LANGUAGE. If you doubt what I am telling you, ask any scholar who knows anything about the giant problems associated with translating. In about 1850 the Revision Committee made approximately 50,000 error corrections to the King James Translation. How many more exist now? Who knows. But let me say this, there is only ONE WORD in all the King James Bible that is really really badly translated, and that is the Greek word aion which means an age. In the plural it means ages. The King James translates it a dozen different ways including everlasting and eternal of which it absolutely means NEITHER!! Here’s a rather comical example of a minor error. The King James says in Matt. 23:24 says, “Ye blind guides, which strain AT a gnat, and swallow a camel.” A child can see from the context that it is talking about things that are swallowed, not things looked at. All scholars know that it should read: Ye blind guides, which strain OUT a gnat, and swallow a camel. Can you see this simple error that has not yet been corrected in nearly 4 hundred years. This error has printed and reprinted a BILLION TIMES. Even my King James has in the center margin the correction strain OUT not strain AT. Go ahead, check your infallible King James right now. You will see this imperfect translation with your own eyes. There are dozens of English Translations that do, however, translate “aion” correctly and consistently. Why do you suppose there are HUNDREDS of translations of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures into English alone, if the King James is PERFECT? Seriously, think about it.

    For those who are wondering, NO I am not an atheist. BUT, I refute this EVIL doctrine of hell with VIGOR because it has absolutely no basis in the renderings of the Greek and Hebrew texts.

    Hell & Hellfire Exposed

  116. Phillip says:

    And another thing mister theologian can you find me just 1 verse that says Jesus came to save us from this eternal hell fire? No you cannot because it’s not there. Judgment serves a higher purpose than punishment and revenge. God sets the hearts of men right through His judgments. Isa 26:9 David tells us in the Psalms that the whole world will sing in joy when God’s judgments come to this earth. No one perishes in the lake of fire. Only carnality is burned up in God’s consuming fire. … SHALL BE SAVED yet so AS BY FIRE” (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!! Did God create such a place called hell, just to inflict sever pain for absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever? Get a grip people. You slander God almighty with such evil. You make God out to be a trillions times more evil and wicked than Hitler, Bin Laden, Stalin COMBINED!! At LEAST Hitler’s victims DIED. You will watch the news about some kid being abuse, and think HOW EVIL, yet when you go to your churches on Sunday morning you listen to some preacher preach how GOD will do something FAR WORSE and you don’t EVEN BAT AN EYE!! There is SOMETHING DEMENTED with this type of thinking. All you hell believers BETTER start to think of how you characterize the very nature of God. THIS IS NOT A GAME. You hell teachers WILL take account for EVERY WORD you LIE about your heavenly father. God help you all.

    • A Champ Matt says:

      Phillip, my brother in the Lord. Your strength and angst in pleasing and learning about His word is exactly what He wants. You remind me of the Apostle Paul, he started out trying to bring down the house of God until the Lord gave him a vision which turned that fire he had, originally to destroy Christianity, for the purpose of rebuilding everything he set out to bring down, increasing the knowledge of Gods word to the people ten fold. I do realize that you are already a Christian, though you have misread the scriptures regarding Hell, written in the Holy Bible more than 400 hundred times, much more than about heaven. This place was not created for man, but for Lucifer, who was once Gods favourite angel, God changed his name to satan,(adversary) after the rebellion, he wanted Gods glory for himself, with which he took a third of the angels that he had tricked into helping him fight God and His angels, into hell. Satan is a trickster, this is why man was driven out of the garden in the first place. Adam and Eve were snaked! Man is destined to die once, and after that, to face judgement. Those of us in a right relationship with Jesus, will then be welcomed into heaven, to spend eterntiy in His glorious presence. All others will be “punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power”2 Thessolonians 1:9. It speaks of people being “condemned to hell” ,Matthew 23:33 and “thrown into hell” Matthew 5:29. He does not want anyone to go there, but He does want you to know what His book says. He does not have to please us, he does what pleases Himself. Hell is fearful, it is described as a “place of torment”Luke 16:28, “a fiery furnace”Matt 13:42, HOT HOT HOT(chucked that unnecessary colour in bro) “A PLACE OF EVERLASTING BURNING AND UNQUENCHABLE FIRE”Isaiah 33:14, It is a bad place mate, “with weeping and gnashing of teeth”-Matthew 3:12, no sleep like earth to seperate a bad days work from another, “NO REST DAY OR NIGHT”Matthew 22:13. In the light of these terrible truths, you need to think very carefully about a question once put to a group of people in the NEW TESTAMENT: “How will you escape being condemned to Hell?” Matthew 23:33. God Bless You Brother and please consider what im saying. We need to know before we die. After that, we stay where we have chosen, on earth, to go. See you up there one day :)

  117. A Champ Matt says:

    Maternity is the start of life, eternity is the end. Humans need a clock because we only have 100 years, if we’re lucky, to fulfill our purpose. In Gods eyes 1000 years are like a day and a day is like a thousand years. We have been given a small amount of time and a small book to study. If we look at nature, we have no excuse for not believing in his majestic power. If you read the very last verse in John, you will realize that we have not been given all the answers. Just a ‘sufficient’ amount. He tests our faith! Do you have what it takes to believe? Hell is real. Maybe i have been brainwashed. But I love it! Washing all that mud off my brain has enabled me to see very clearly. After 2000 years, no expert in any field has ever disproved a single statement in the Holy Bible. The reason is this: All scripture is God breathed, therfore we should accept it not as the word of man, but as it actually is, THE WORD OF GOD! Love and peace to you all brothers and sisters:)

  118. Phillip says:

    Matt I have pointed out dozens of scriptures. I would bet you haven’t even attempted to read any of my previous post have you? No you have not! Because if you did you WILL KNOW that Satan was NEVER in heaven to begin with. Satan FROM THE BEGINNING was a LIAR, A MURDERER. Yet you say he was create PERFECT? And THEN out of his phantom free will decided to rebel. Is there ANY biblical truth to this phantom free will? Well lets see shall we? Are we to believe that our first parents, God’s VERY FIRST attempt at creating Sons and Daughters in His very own Image, FAILED? Do we think that Adam and Eve’s creation was FINISHED before they even drew breath? That they started out, PERF…ECT, IN GOD’S OWN IMAGE, WITH GOD’S SPIRIT, TOTALLY MATURE, AND THEN MALFUNCTIONED AND FAILED? And God did not see it coming? Was God shocked at this unforeseen bungled attempt at creating obedient children? Did He figure out what went wrong? Did He have a plan to fix the malfunctioning humans? Or would He just try over and over and over again billions of times until He got it right? Is this the kind of blasphemous insults we should level against your own CREATOR?

    If anything in the universe has ever malfunctioned contrary to the intention of the Creator and Designer God, then the flaw is in the Inventor, not the invention! GOD IS THE POTTER: WE ARE THE CLAY!

    Has not the Potter (God) power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto DISHONOUR?” (Rom. 9:21).

    The theory of free will is not only totally unscriptural; it is a physiological impossibility. With the same set of circumstances as Adam and Eve faced, every single person who has ever lived would have done the very same thing and sinned. Now then, if free will were a reality, surely at least ONE person would have resisted and willed NOT TO SIN. Do we have proof of what I am saying?

    If any man or woman who has ever lived, possessed this thing called “free moral agency” (the ability to make uncaused choices), then surely somewhere at some time at some place on this big broad earth, there would have had to be at least ONE out of the billions and billions of people who have ever lived, who would have used his or her “free will” to choose and will to not sin. There has never been such a person save one, Jesus Christ.

    If we say that we have NO sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us I John 1:8.

    Is there anyone who doesn’t understand that last verse? Is there anyone who doesn’t believe it? Then how is it possible that man has free will? If humankind has just as much of a free will to choose GOOD as they have a free will to choose BAD, then why oh why has not one of the fifty billion, in the history of the world, used his free will to choose good and to not sin? What earthly or heavenly good is it to claim that mankind has free moral agency if not one in fifty billion people has ever been able to successfully use his free will in choosing not to sin? Therefore, God is obligated to have a better solution to the all have sinned reality than to burn most of them in a lake of fire for all eternity. Am I going to fast for anyone? Am I making sense to anyone? Is there someone who wishes to counter these facts by continuing to cling to this idol of the heart and still insist that we really do have free will, but it’s just that it malfunctions in 100% of the people who possess it?

    The false doctrine of free will is clear. Do I have to spell it out? I gave you a link to read. Under the AUTHORITY OF PASTORS? HA! Give me just 1 good reason I need to be under someone’s thumb? Especially someone who preaches FREE WILL!!Th…is is a IDOL of every man heart that God WILL cleanse us ALL from. We choose all day long. God asks us to choose. The human brain has the ability to weigh data and make a choice. I nor the Scriptures deny this fact. What I AND THE SCRIPTURES do deny, is that man has the ability to man “UNCAUSED” choices. For that is what “free” will is all about–UNCAUSED choices, and I and the Scriptures both agree that this is a physiological impossibility.

    If something always MAKES OR CAUSES you to choose what you do, then you and your data-processing-brain are not “free” or out of the realm of “causality” to do anything BUT what a cause made you choose. You can say the cause, forced, made, or soften, to influenced, or inspired, but the end result is always the same: ALL OF OUR CHOICES ARE INFLUENCED, INSPIRED, OR CAUSED to happen by billions of circumstances beyond our knowledge or control.

    Therefore King Nebuchadnezar was CAUSED to see that it is God and God alone who rules in the kingdoms of individual men and corporate men. God said that it was HE, GOD, who CAUSED [MADE] the king of Assyria do the warring and slaughter that the king thought he himself had the ability to do.

    Jesus said He could no NOTHING except what the Father gave Him to do AND TO EVEN SAY, and Jesus said that without Him, we also, CAN DO NOTHING.

    For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13)

    If eternal damnation IS true, THEN JESUS CHRIST SUFFERED AND DIED FOR NOTHING!!!

    Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural (physical); and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL” (1 Cor. 15:45)

    Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God

    Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

    THE church has not been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom.

    Matthew 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

    How MUCH PROOF DO YOU NEED? Shall I continue? Prove this wrong.

    Free will or independence from our Creator God is just an illusion. It is, nonetheless, a marvelous illusion. The genius of God is o…verwhelming. It is this very illusion that enables mankind to actually believe he is the master of his own fate. And God helps bolster this illusion by actually giving men a certain amount of success in their quest for power, fame, and fortune. But just like the King of Assyria, Pharaoh, and others, all, one day, will realize and appreciate the fact that it was God operating all .

    These inspired words of the Apostle Paul are so clear that one has to be downright stubborn as to the truth, not to believe them.

    Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. You will be protesting to me, then, ‘Why, then, is He [God] still blaming? for who has withstood His intention?’ O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, ‘Why do you make me thus?’ Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor? Rom. 9:18-21

    God said He raised Pharaoh up for the express purpose of displaying His power in him. t is an historical and Scriptural fact that God did this to Pharaoh. Ver. 18 then states that, consequently then, God is either merciful, or hardens anyone He wants to. And whosoever they are have nothing to say about God’s doing so. Well, of course, if one is hostile against God and His word, his retort to this statement of Paul’s would then be. WHY, THEN, IS HE STILL BLAMING? Ver. 19. How can God hold people accountable for their sins when it was He [God] who brought about their condition? At least Paul’s detractors had the sense to realize that if what Paul was saying is true, then they are solely at God’s mercy (not their own ability) to ever change their condition, because their next statement is for who has WITHSTOOD HIS INTENTION?” (Ver. 19).

    God intends for men to go against His will (that’s how men become lost so that God can then save them), but no one, absolutely NO ONE, has ever gone against God’s INTENTION! Hey, don’t get angry with me – I’m just quoting the Scriptures. Notice that Paul does not even deign to answer such carnal questioning of God’s wisdom. His response is O MAN! WHO ARE YOU, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded WILL NOT protest to the molder, ‘Why do YOU MAKE me thus’? Ver. 20 God is GOD, and He does what He pleases. God pleases to have many Sons. God pleases to save ALL humanity and ALL in the heavens (Eph. 11:10-11, Col. 1:20, I Cor. 15:22, 28). Who are we to question God’s process? Since God is both loving and wise and also possesses all power, why should anyone question God’s ability to accomplish His own Will? Theologians are audacious. They not only question God’s ability to accomplish His own will; they flat out teach the whole world that the Great Creator God will NEVER accomplish His Own Will. Paul told Timothy. our Saviour, God, Who WILLS that ALL mankind be saved … I Tim. 2:4

    Theologians over the world say: IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN! They try to make God out a liar. They are the liars, deceivers, hypocrites, and blasphemers! One thing is certain; God’s greatest enemies are not qualified to be great teachers of His Word. Maybe it’s time we pulled back the curtain of tradition, ignorance, and immaturity and acknowledge Who is really “pulling the strings” of the universe

  119. Phillip says:

    “Maternity is the start of life, eternity is the end.” Yes you have been brainwashed. Please, for your OWN sake dig a little deeper brother. What I’m going to tell you may seem harsh, but do not take this offensively. You need to come out of your line of thinking.

    WRONG WRONG WRONG!! The end of the aions is the END. There are many different ways the word eon (The English word for the Greek word aion) is translated, as well as allowing the BIBLE to interpret its OWN words. The Bible reveals that the word eon clearly means a period of time, because the eons have a “conclusion!” Eternity has NO conclusion! So the word “Eon” CANNOT mean eternity!

    If you or any theologian can’t see the absolute versus the relative in Scripture, then he/she in no position to teach anyone. I’ll give you some examples of the absolute vs. the relative.

    seek, and ye shall find Mat. 7:7 vs. Not one is seeking out God Rom. 3:1…1, God changed His mind Ex. 32:14 vs. God is not a man Who changes His mind I Sam. 15:29, choose you this day whom ye will serve. Josh. 24:15 vs. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you Jn. 15:16, whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God … I Jn. 3:10 vs. All is of God II Cor. 5:18, Zechariah was just before God Lk. 1:5 (Comparing him to the corrupt priests) vs. Not one is just Rom. 3:10(Comparing man with God)

    One is the relative the other is the absolute. One is from man’s point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God’s point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature. Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man’s point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God’s absolute declarations. They won’t admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the relative at the expense of rejecting the absolute.

    Even theologians admit that their free will theory is limited. So they have invented limited free will. They use analogies like a cow on a tether or a fly in a jar or a lion in a cage. Their freedom is limited to the confines of their restraints, but within those confines they are nonetheless, free. Is this true? Is there such a thing as limited free will? Or is this just more theological double-talk?

    Only in religion do simple words lose their meaning. Dictionaries define free, a. without restriction. So here then is what theologians want us to believe: Man has a will that is restricted without restriction. Man does not have limited free will. Otherwise God would have limited sovereignty. Man has no free will and God has total sovereignty. Theologians try to make high what is low and try to bring low what is high. These teachings do not glorify God.God is not sitting around waiting to see what man will do through his free will so that He can then figure out what to do about it. Rather than conclude from the wisdom of the world that man has a free will (and thus deny the sovereignty of God), we must conclude that since God is sovereign, man can not and does not have a free will. This is logical, sensible, and lawful. It is Scriptural and it glorifies God.

    NOW TELL ME MISTER? ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE THE GALL TO SIT THERE AND TELL ME GOD CREATED BILLIONS OF PEOPLE KNOWING BEFOREHAND THEY WOULD SUFFER FOREVER IN THIS HIDEOUS PLACE YOU CALL HELL? ISN’T THIS WORD HELL JUST A TAD BIT PAGAN ANYWAYS? Sir you haven’t got a clue as to what your talking about and you have absolutely NO RIGHT to threaten ANYONE with such evil. Not a single verse you gave prove eternal torment NONE! Do you not know that the Greek meaning of the word torture means to be tested? Your not aware of that are you? No, I didn’t think so. Want proof? Well here you go.

    That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ” (I Pet. 1:7)Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the FIREY TRIAL which is to TRY you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you” (I Pet. 4:12)Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall TRY every man’s work of what sort it is” (I Cor. 3:13)

    For EVERY ONE [sinner AND saint] shall be salted with FIRE” (Mark 9:49). And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are “revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?” Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars JUDGED? Answer .In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE(Rev. 21:8)Is this fire in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word fire used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word fire used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers. The FIRE is a TESTING. NOT physical pain. Just what would physical pain FOREVER accomplish? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Do really think God does things for no purpose of GOOD? And tell me, just how will ANYONE be able to feel this physical pain since they will be raised a SPIRITUAL BODY? I Cor. 15:44 Do I need to go through the whole entire book of Revelations to show you that EVERYTHING here is metaphorically written? Do I? Cause I will if that’s what it takes! Have you even read the very first verse in Revelations?
    Rev 1:1
    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John:

    I will go through the whole entire book if I have to to show you just how ludicrous it is to believe in a LITERAL place of FIRE and torment. You think it really matters how many times you read a bible? IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A REVELATION FROM GOD YOU WILL N_O_T RECEIVE ONE BIT OF TRUTH. No offense but you are still carnal minded. And the chances are VERY LIKELY the godless Atheist WILL receive their salvation before you. Mt 21:31 Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the PUBLICANS and the HARLOTS go into the kingdom of God BEFORE YOU.

    Oh the blasphemy of those who teach that God’s most heartfelt desires WILL NOT COME TO PASS, but will utterly fail!!! Jesus Christ is not the potential Savior of the world; He IS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!! HE WILL SAVE THE WORLD!!!

    Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

  120. Phillip says:

    I have just 1 last thing to tell you. Matt you are dead wrong. Hell is NOT spoken of more than heaven. The word hell is only spoken of ONLY 56 TIMES in the entire bible.. HEAVEN IS SPOKEN OF 565 TIMES. Do the math. I HAVE STUDIED THIS. Now you do it.

  121. Phillip says:

    There are many examples of Jesus upbraiding the Church leaders for their gross sins these are selections from Matthew 23

    “But WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… FOR YOU SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AGAINST MEN…

    …THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERS

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… you DEVOUR WIDOW’S HOUSES… you shall receive the greater damnation.

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES…

    WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES…

    You FOOLS AND BLIND…

    You FOOLS AND BLIND…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You… have omitted… JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH…

    You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.

    You BLIND PHARISEES…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS… and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES!… you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.

    You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES… you KILL AND CRUCIFY… you SCOURGE in your synagogues… Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE”!!

    WOW! Every one of these comments from Matt. 23 were spoken directly to the “Religious Scholars and Theologians” in the Church of God centered at the Temple in Jerusalem. Would Jesus speak in the same manner to the Religious Scholars and Theologians in God’s Church today? Does Jesus “change”? NO. Has the Church changed in the past 2000 years? YES. It has gotten WORSE. Now tell me just who is Matthew 23:33 being spoken to here? It being spoke DIRECTLY to the CHURCH, THE PASTORS, TV EVANGELISTS, ETC. I can go through every verse you gave and refute you.

  122. Phillip says:

    http://iswasandwillbe.com/sovereignty.php

    After the Counsel of His Own Will Does Mankind Have Free Will? By Mike Vinson

  123. A Champ Matt says:

    WOW, if you put as much effort into trying to disprove other’s comments as you do learning the REAL truth and giving and loving, I think that you would be on the right track. You need a girlfriend bro ;).

  124. Phillip says:

    Matt how old do you think I am? No I don’t need a girlfriend. I have been married for 15 years. And you have the audacity to tell ME how to LOVE? And YET it is you who is threatening people with the idea that they WILL BURN FOREVER? And why do I put so much effort into debunking this hell myth? Because those who do this, ONLY put fear into the hearts and minds of million. If you are serving God out of fear, then you do not have saving faith.

    Matt I haven’t even told you a fraction of what I could tell you. I think you know that. Now here is some REAL TRUTH FOR YOU. Maybe if you would take THIS into serious consideration, THEN YOU would be on the right tract.

    The Hypocrisy of False Expressions
    1 Tim. 4:1-2

    a demonstration of the strange influence of demons
    among Christians
    What They Say What They Mean
    “There’s nothing you must do to be saved……” “Here’s what you must do to be saved”
    “You are absolutely, totally helpless to save yourself.” “You must make a wise decision in order to be saved.”
    “God controls all things.” “God doesn’t control man’s free will.”
    “We can’t boast about going to heaven.” “If we go to hell, it’s our own fault.”
    “Love never faileth!” “Love can’t overcome human stubborness.”
    “Men are in bondage to sin.” “Men are free to choose Christ.”
    “Grace is unmerited favor” “given only to those who merit it with faith and obedience”
    “GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND
    (1 Tim. 4:10)…” ” except for about ninety percent of them.”
    “GOD’S LOVE IN UNCONDITIONAL” ” as long as you meet certain conditions.”
    “GOD’S WILL IS UNSTOPPABLE” ” except by the sinner.”
    “Salvation is not a thing of chance.” “There is no second chance to be saved.”
    “WE HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU !” “Most of mankind will perish forever.”
    “GOD LOVES YOU !” ” as long as you love Him.”
    “Christ died for all sin” ” except the sin of not believing that He died for all sin.”
    “The Good Shepherd seeks the lost sheep until he finds it !” “The Good Shepherd seeks until it’s too late.”
    “God’s justice was satisfied in the cross of Christ.” “God’s justice demands eternal torment or annihilation.”

  125. Phillip says:

    And I’d like to know also just where in the world did you get your info that the word hell is in the bible 400 TIMES? Dude you are not even close. Did someone tell you this? Better start finding out the truth because you have been deceived. Your number of 400 is way off. If I took ALL the leading translation and counted the number of times hell is in the bible, it would not be that many times in ALL THE LEADING TRANSLATIONS COMBINED.

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Hell_is_Leaving_the_Bible_Forever.html

    You have no idea what your talking about.

  126. A Champ Matt says:

    I didn’t say ‘the word hell’, “a firey furnace”MATT-13:42, doesnt say hell at all,”a place of torment”LUKE 16:28,”everlasting burning and unquenchable fire”ISAIAH 33:14,These examples, among many, many others do not say ‘hell’ at all,so there’s no point ‘googling “HELL”. Found amongst most other scripture, this technique is called ‘figurative speech’. Do not take His words literally. This is why He spoke mostly in parables. To fulfill the prophesy of ISAIAH, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding: you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with there eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.MATT 13:14,ISAIAH 6:9. Jesus only had a small amount of time to fulfill the prophesy of scripture,they were to kill Him soon. If he spoke literally to everyone, He would not have the time to be getting the point across to everyone, in every language, for the next 2000 years so far. Hell is real Phillip. If you think that God would condemn me for not speaking the truth, where would I be condemned to? You are an angry man, you have been tricked by satan into believing there is no hell. He wants it that way. He is a LIAR and uses TRICKERY to contort people’s perception of him and the scriptures. If you think there is no hell. I feel sorry for you. God wants us to speak the truth, not a sugar coated, airy-fairy version that you’ve complicated yourself into believing. “Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters! Let every person be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger”.JAMES 1:9 You are onto the sriptures, GOOD start. Reading them properly is your next step. The good Lord gave us 2 EARS and 1 mouth. Take note of this, GOD BLESS:)

  127. Phillip says:

    “unquenchable fire”ISAIAH 33:14″ Look up GEHENNA. Gehenna is VALLEY right outside the southwest wall of Jerusalem called the valley of Ben Hinnom where there were human sacrifices. And what did God have to say about this FIRE of Molech? THIS HERE IS REAL FIRE! It NEVER entered God mind to do such an abomination. Jer 32:35

    Mt25:46. Now that in the previous comment we came to the conclusion that AION CANNOT MEAN ETERNAL. So what does the Concordant Literal New testament say? Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into CHASTENING EONIAN, yet the just into life EONIAN.”

    Let’s define chastening.

    Kolasin: Chastisement, Root Word is Kolos and literally means to prune. The Correction is with a view to helping the offender. It is usually incorrectly rendered Punishment. Matt. 25:46 (Eonian Chastisement)

    Timoria: Punishment or Penalty. It means the vindictive character of punishment that only satisfies the inflictor of it. Acts. 4:21 Find no way of punishing them.

    PUNISHING VS. CHASTENING: While considering all of the hellfire and brimstone material disseminated by Christian teachers, preachers, writers, and educators around the world, just how many hundreds of times do you suppose the word punishment is used in the entire New Testament with regards to sinners? Hundreds? Would you believe less than fifty? Would you believe less than ten? Would you believe ONCE? That’s right, the answer is one time.

    Of how much more punishment [Gk: timoria], suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb. 10:29).

    I can assure you that those who have committed the above crime towards the Lord are few indeed. Most of humanity that will be judged in the lake of fire have NEVER EVEN HEARD of Jesus Christ, let alone, trodden underfoot the Son of God, and counted the blood of the covenant, an UNHOLY thing, and done DESPITE unto the Spirit of grace. Most have never even heard of such sins, let alone committed them.

    This is a most powerful Scripture to be sure, but it does not speak of eternal punishment, and it is the ONLY SCRIPTURE IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT that uses the word punishment with reference to punishing sinners!

    There are three other places in the KJV that the word punish or punished is used correctly. They are Acts 4:21; 22:5; and 26:11 where it Saul (later Paul) is punishing not sinners, but members of the church, the followers of Christ.

    II Thes. 1:9 should be translated, eonian extermination and not punished … everlasting.

    II Peter 2:4 & 9 should both be chastening as it is the same Greek word kolazo and not timoria which means punish.

    The KJV uses punished in verse 9, which should be chasten, and ironically it doesn’t even translate the Greek word kolazo (chasten) in verse four — the KJV translators left it out completely. I suppose the translators thought that it was redundant to say, chastening judging. But then again, they didn’t bother to look at II Cor. 2:6 which should read rebuke (another Greek word, epitimia), not punish.

    And lastly, I Pet. 2:14 should read vengeance (Still another Greek word, ekdikēsis), and not punishment.

    So in the case of punishment we have but ONE Scripture to deal with, and we will deal with it.

    This next fact doesn’t necessarily prove anything. Jesus Christ said:

    O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the ABUNDANCE of the heart the MOUTH SPEAKS (Mat. 12:34).

    I you SHOULD understand that statement: What is heaviest and most dominant on our heart is what we talk about the most.

    Now then, my observation. By now you should haved learned of the one time that punishment is used in reference to sinners. Would you all be interested in knowing how many times the opposite of punishment is used? Okay, the word mercy is found in the Bible over 330 times! Could it be that the abundance of God’s heart consists of many more MERCIES than it does of vengeance and punishment? Carl, you have no clue to what your saying. Eternal is an INVENTION BY MAN. HELL IS AN INVENTION. ETERNAL TORMENT IS AN INVENTION.

    Jesus Christ paid for ALL our sin debt. Jesus WILL GET WHAT HE PAID FOR, AND THAT IS ALL!!!

  128. Phillip says:

    “If he spoke literally to everyone, He would not have the time to be getting the point across to everyone”

    What kind of double talk nonsense is that? “IF HE” You think Jesus spoke in PARABLES to get his point across? He spoke in parable SO THE MASSES WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND!

  129. Phillip says:

    Lets go through Rev chapter by chapter by chapter and see if any of it is LITERAL.

    Now for a most important understanding. Just how was this revelation to John to be recorded and preserved? Notice it:

    “…and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John” (Rev. 1:1)

    What does it mean to “signify?” Certainly this prophecy of the revelation or unveiling of Christ was written down (ver. 19), but it means more than just that. To “signify” has to do with signs and symbols. From my Webster’s Twentieth Century Dictionary p. 1541, first definition of signify:

    “to make known by signs or words”

    First definition of sign:

    “any symbol …that represents an idea”

    That which, being external, represents or signifies something internal or spiritual.

    The synonym for sign is: symbol.

    There is no mistaking this language. The book of Revelation is written in SYMBOLS! So what is written externally, on paper, in symbols, has a SPIRITUAL meaning and application.

    Let us now see the symbolism of this prophecy. I will pick out some of the most obvious things that would be impossible to understand literally.

    Notice that in verse ten John informs us that,

    “I was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord’s day…”
    And then he begins to tell us what he hears and sees. Now the very fact that he was “in the spirit” on the Lord’s day conclusively proves that he was not literally there! Let us never lose sight of this fact: John WRITES what has been SIGNIFIED (WITH SYMBOLS) the things that he SEES and HEARS IN A VISION–IN SPIRIT!

    Beginning in verse twelve John starts to tell us what he saw and heard,

    “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me … his eyes were as a flame of fire, and his feet like unto fine brass … And he had in his right hand seven stars and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword.

    Have you ever “seen a voice?” All these things are symbols that stand for other things. And God immediately gives us proof positive of this in verse 20,

    The mystery [this is not literal--it was a mystery until God tells us that one thing really means or represents another and DIFFERENT THING] of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars ARE THE ANGELS OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE THE SEVEN CHURCHES.”

    The stars are not literal and the candlesticks are not literal. In the first 20 verses of Revelation we can find eleven statements that are not literal, but rather symbolic. They represent truths that are presented in symbols. The literal language is not the literal truth being presented. The statements themselves do not teach us the truth OF the statements. We must look elsewhere in the Scriptures for the interpretation.

    Now look at chapter two:

    Verse 5, Will God literally punish the church of Ephesus by removing a literal candlestick? NO! Removing a literal candlestick would be no great loss to anyone. But from what we learned in verse 20 of chapter one, the candlestick IS one of the churches . So Christ is threatening to REMOVE THE WHOLE CHURCH, not some piece of furniture or candlestick from the building of a church.

    Verse 7, Is the tree of life a literal tree that one literally eats?

    Verse 9, Was the church in Smyrna literally in poverty and literally rich at the same time? Does “synagogue of Satan” mean a literal synagogue where Satan has a Rabbi teaching the Law to a congregation every Sabbath day?

    Verse 13, Is a name something that one literally holds fast to with one’s hands?

    Verse 16, Will Christ literally do battle by using a literal sword which He literally keeps in His mouth? Or do we not read in another place in God’s word that this “sword” IS God’s Word? (Heb. 4:12).

    Verse 17, Will Christ reward the faithful with a literal little white stone? Can’t we see that the stone and the name written in it represents something else? Something of much greater value?

    Verse 20, Was the harlot Jezebel literally in the Thyatira church? Literal Jezebel died CENTURIES before this book was written by John. Jezebel in the physical represents or symbolizes a SPIRITUAL condition in the church of Thyatira.

    Verse 22, Will Christ literally throw literal Jezebel into a literal bed where she will literally commit adultery with literal men?

    Verse 23, Will Christ kill literal children of the literal harlot, Jezebel?

    Verse 27, Will the saints beat the nations with a literal rod of iron into literal small pieces like broken pottery?

    Verse 28, Will Christ give the literal morning star to His saints? Where would they put it? What would they do with it?

    Chapter 3:1, Was the Sardis church literally alive and literally dead at the same time?

    Verse 4, Were members of the Sardis congregation wearing literally soiled clothing?

    Verse 7, Is there literally a metal key of David that is needed to open a literal lock?

    Verse 12, Will Christ literally turn people into stone pillars in the temple?

    Verse 16, Will Christ literally spit the church of Laodicea out of His mouth?

    Verse 17, Were the members of the Laodicean church literally poor and literally blind and literally naked without clothing to wear? Are there not other Scriptures that tell us what it means to be SPIRITUALLY “poor, blind, and naked?”

    Verse 18, Did Christ try to sell Laodicea literal gold? What would they do with the gold? What, pray tell, would Christ do with the money?

    Verse 20, Does Christ literally knock at the doors of our homes and then come in and eat a literal home cooked meal and pecan pie with us?

    Is it necessary for me to go through this entire book verse by verse before we can fully realize that this book is written in figurative, symbolic, and metaphorical language?

    Let’s look at just a few more:

    Chapter 4, Was a literal trumpet “talking” with John?

    Chapter 5, Is Jesus Christ literally a “Lion,” an “animal?”

    Chapter 6, Are these literal “horses?” Do the literal stars of heaven fall on the earth? The smallest known stars are a million times larger than the earth.

    Chapter 7, Were angels literally holding back four “winds” on four literal “corners” of the earth? I thought the earth is round without corners? Can one literally wash his clothes “white” in red “blood?”

    Chapter 8, Will an angel cast a literal mountain burning with fire into the sea?

    Chapter 9, During the fifth trumpet will it literally be impossible for mortal men to die?

    Will there be literal locusts shaped like “horses?” Locusts that literally have “hair like a woman, teeth like a lion, and breastplates of iron?” LOCUSTS with breastplates of “iron?”

    Chapter 10, Did John eat a literal book? That was literally sweet in his taste buds, but literally bitter in his stomach? Why would anyone “eat” a literal book?

    Chapter 11, Are God’s two witnesses that prophesy, literally two olive trees and two candlesticks? But if we study Zechariah 4 we can determine what is meant by “two witnesses.”

    Chapter 12, Will there literally be a pregnant woman “clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars?” Was this same woman able to literally “fly into the wilderness with wings of an eagle?”

    Chapter 13, Will there be a literal lamb that will speak like a dragon? Just how do dragons “speak” anyhow?

    Will people be literally tattooed with marks (bar codes, swastikas, Social Security numbers, implanted with computer chips or one of a hundred unscriptural marks being suggested by fundamentalist prophets) in their hands and on their foreheads so that men cannot buy or sell ice cream or automobiles without these marks? Self-appointed prophets of doom haven’t a clue as to what this mark of the beast really is or the number of his name. I have already been barred from buying and selling recently because I refuse to brandish this “mark of the beast”!

    Chapter 14, Does Babylon cause all nations to literally drink of the wine of the literal wrath of her fornication? I thought wine came from grapes not wrath (of course there is that famous novel, The Grapes of Wrath).

    Chapter 15, Are the seven last global plagues and catastrophes really contained in seven literal tiny gold vials or bottles?

    Chapter 16, Is Jesus Christ going to return to this earth as a literal “thief”? Will every island and mountain on earth literally disappear?

    Chapter 17, Will there really be a woman who will ride a literal scarlet coloured beast, having seven heads and ten horns. Can whole nations literally fornicate with a harlot? But here once more in this chapter God does reveal to us who this beast is and what the symbolic horns represent which again proves that ALL OF THESE THINGS are not literal but symbolic and represent things other than what is being described.

    Chapter 18, Will the entire social, political, and economic system of the world literally collapse in just one hour because one literal city (Babylon) is destroyed?

    Chapter 19, Will a literal prostitute “corrupt” the entire earth? Will a literal “lamb” marry a literal “wife?” Will the King of the universe really wear clothing dripping with literal “blood?” Is God’s wrath a literal “winepress?” Will literal armies of heaven follow Christ to earth riding on literal “flying horses?” No, NONE of these things are literal!

    Any theologian or preacher on international television would be laughed to scorn if he were to preach a sermon trying to prove that all of the above Scriptures are to be taken absolutely literally. Such a sermon would be seen as foolish by nearly everyone. No educated man in the Word of God would ever dare to present anything so STUPID!

    And yet … and YET, when we come to verse 20: will a literal beast and a literal false prophet be cast alive into a literal “lake of fire burning with brimstone?” How do these same theologians and preachers answer? They answer: “Yes, of course they will be thrown into a literal lake of fire, because THIS IS LITERAL.” Amazing. Absolutely amazing–the power of the carnal mind to self-deceive. Why are fundamentalists totally sure that these verses on a lake of fire are literal? Well, of course, they aren’t sure; they just pretend to be sure. They desire with their whole heart and being that this lake of fire is real fire. Why? Because the eternal torture of billions of men and women and boys and girls in some fabled hellhole doesn’t “diminish” them one iota! They want people who don’t believe as they believe to have their flesh barbecued over fire and brimstone for all eternity. The very idea gives them great joy. And it makes them proud. They have no love for sinners as God does. They hate sinners. They hate unbelievers. They love only themselves. They pronounce CURSES on me for quoting Scriptures that show God will save everyone. They highly disapprove of God being the saviour of the whole world. They won’t hear of it; they won’t have it! They don’t approve of a God Who would save everyone by bringing them to repentance, and purging them, and turning their hearts to God. If God were to save everyone through the purging of his SPIRITUAL FIRE, then they could not wag their fingers at all these people sizzling and popping like bacon in a hot skillet saying, “I told you so, I told you so…” for all eternity. Hussein and Bin Laden are not the only ones out there with depraved religious minds.God did not write nineteen whole chapters of Revelation giving us symbol after symbol and metaphor after metaphor, and then in chapter 20 switch to writing in literal language with literal meanings.

    God IS this lake of fire!

    But since it is not literal fire, what does it burn? What does it consume? — It is the “works of the flesh” that made sinners of those thrown into the lake of fire in the first place. And we shall see from the Scriptures that it is these very works of the flesh that are consumed in this lake of fire. And don’t think for a moment that it is not a most painful and tormenting experience to have one’s carnal mind with all its ungodly passions, thoughts and deeds, burned clean and pure by the consuming fire of God’s Holy Spirit!

    God doesn’t change. He will use the same method in the day of judging at the white throne as He uses on US. Although the intensity will get considerably more severe for those who blaspheme till the end.

    We are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8). However, that does not purge us from all our filthy thoughts and deeds. No, there is more. There is also a consuming FIRE that God uses on us:

    For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS; but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in God’s consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE” (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!!

    can we begin to understand the workings of God? God consumes with fire, the wood, hay and stubble in our lives. The things that don’t deserve to continue. But he REFINES the gold, silver, and precious stones (those doctrines and godly character traits of God’s spirit that abide the fire). It is figurative language, it is an analogy, it is a parable, it is metaphorical (where one thing is called another thing). Our lives have either qualities of character (which are likened to gold and precious stones, things of value to refine and retain), or gross lacks in character (which are likened to wood, hay, and stubble and which are not worthy to retain or preserve).

    And just as real literal fire is used to refine and purify gold and precious metals, so God’s SPIRITUAL FIRE refines and purifies us from our sinful and carnal nature. And likewise, as real literal fire is used to burn up wood and stubble, so God’s all consuming SPIRITUAL FIRE will consume and burn up all the impurities in our life. These things MUST DIE. This purging is the SECOND DEATH. And whether the person God subjects to His consuming fire has many good qualities or none, the person himself shall be purged, purified, and SAVED BY GOD’S ALL-CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!! We just read it in God’s Holy Word. How can any deny it? Every person who has ever lived will be subjected to the cleaning fire of God’s spirit.

    God is the JUDGE (Rev. 20;12). NOT Satan. This judgment throne is “WHITE” not black! God judges in righteousness.

    He shall judge the world with RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Psalm 96:13)

    Because He [God] hath appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Acts 17:31)

    Now we know that those not found in the book of life will be put into FIRE, and they will be TORMENTED. This is certainly part of this judgment. But it is not literal fire. Literal fire burns up physical things and literal fire cannot harm spiritual things. So what does the fire do or accomplish? MUCH!

    This judgment in Revelation 20 IS that worldwide judgment spoken of in many prophecies. But is the purpose of this worldwide judgment to torture people by burning their flesh in real fire for all eternity? Is that HOW God judges in “righteousness”? Absolutely not. We just read where God burns up our fleshly WORKS, and this is “tormenting” for sure. But God does not torture our flesh for all eternity. Don’t get me wrong, there will be severe chastisements on those who despise God and His Savior and His Gospel. But out of their ashes will come salvation. Here is another marvelous Scripture which answers what happens to sinning humanity when God JUDGES THE WORLD in righteousness.

    Make no mistake, God will judge the wicked with great severity. However, ALWAYS FOR A BENEVOLENT PURPOSE:

    “With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Isaiah 26:9)!!

    There will come a time when those who only knew how to blaspheme the name of God, will come to LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. They will not just “hear” of righteousness, no, they will actually “LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS”!

    he whole book of Isaiah speaks of judgments on Israel and on the nations. But the end of all these judgments is SALVATION TO ALL. Notice Isa. 45:22-23,

    Look unto me, and BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness [as in, ‘For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,’ I Tim. 2:3-4] , and shall not return, That unto me EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE SHALL SWEAR” (See also: Phil. 2: 9-11 & I Cor. 12:3).

    God’s words will NOT return empty or void. When God speaks, it will be done. When God wills, it will be done. When God desires, His desires WILL BE DONE:

    “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE … I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT” (Isa. 46:10-11).

    1 Tim 2:4 WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED.

    Is there a verse that says God wills NOT that all men to be saved? Is there such a Scripture? No.

    YOU LOSE.

    HAVE A NICE DAY. And remember Jesus came to save the world. HE DID NOT FAIL.

  130. A Champ Matt says:

    I lose? Married 15 years ya reckon…. who to? Your mum :)

  131. A Champ Matt says:

    Hey don’t take notice of that last post. We are not in competition! I understand Jesus came to save the world, from the works of satan. Only those who believe in Him and love Him will receive eternal life. Remember, not just believing in Him is enough to be saved, SATAN, DEMONS BELIEVE IN HIM, AND SHUDDER. We serve Him or we serve satan. If we don’t serve the Lord Jesus, then we serve satan, we may not think we are, but we are. Evil came into the world through Adam and Eve. We all would have been tricked by satan God says, so we can’t blame them. His plan was for people to walk the gardens of Eden with God. We were tricked by satan, he was once called Lucifer, after the rebellion, God CHANGED HIS USELESS NAME TO SATAN. MEANING ‘ADVERSARY’. READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY! Hell was not made for man. It was made for satan and his ‘fallen angels’. This rebellion happened before man was ever made, this is why satan turned himself into a snake and told Adam and Eve that they would be like Him if they ate the fruit. He was right to a degree, we aren’t like blind children anymore, though we dont have anything like the power of God, we do know the difference between good and evil (conscience). Matthew 10:34: “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword”. Jesus came specifically to reiterate WHO RUNS THIS SHOW! We have been tricked by believing in a counterfeit CHRISTIANITY! satan will wrap ‘shit in a box’, put a CHRISTIAN STICKER ON IT, then send it our way! We will believe. The apostle Paul tells us that “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” (II Cor. 11:14). We arent as smart as satan, THOUGH WE HAVE POWER OVER HIM IN JESUS’ NAME! HE WAS GODS BEST ANGEL, he was the highest in angel hierarchy, higher than Gabriel and Michael. Satans 6000 year reign is nearly over, then hell and death will be thrown into the lake of fire. Jehovas witness believe in the stupid ‘no hell’ theory, they also believe that only 144000 people can go to heaven, stooged by satan and lost in scriptures. This is referring to the 12 tribes of Israel! perfect example of “COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIANITY”. Dunno what bible they’re reading. Its certainly not the HOLY BIBLE. Satan tricks and is the master of LIES! Dont get sucked in! He is “the king of terrors” JOB 18:14. YOU WILL GET TO MEET HIM IF YOU TELL PEOPLE THERE IS NO HELL. God hates satan, and he hates it when people DONT DO THEIR HOMEWORK AND TEACH PEOPLE ANYTHING BUT THE TRUTH. I’m afraid you are severely disillusioned about this fact. I repeat, YOU HAVE BEEN FOOLED BY SATAN INTO BELIEVING THERE IS NO HELL! Don’t get mad, CHANGE YOUR BELIEF, then teach the truth, THAT HELL IS A REAL PLACE!!! Good Luck

  132. Phillip says:

    you say “Remember, not just believing in Him is enough to be saved,”

    How about this 1 Cor 12:3 Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit

    “Evil came into the world through Adam and Eve”
    How about THIS:
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create EVIL: I the LORD do ALL these things.

    “We all would have been tricked by satan God says, so we can’t blame them. ”

    And God is ALL KNOWING? And God DID NOT FORESEE that Adam would sin? After all it WAS God who placed that tree RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GARDEN.

    “We were tricked by satan, he was once called Lucifer”

    No YOU were tricked. And you STILL ARE. Did you not know the name LUCIFER means LIGHT BEARER? I posted a dandy of a comment EXPOSING the Lucifer hoax and the mission of satan above.

    “Hell was not made for man. It was made for satan and his ‘fallen angels’.

    It was made FOR SATAN , and yet AND YET you say millions of people will go to this mythical place you call hell? In Rev 20:14 Then death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. So you telling me hell is cast into hell? LOL!!!

    “satan turned himself into a snake”

    REALLY? Satan CHANGED because of his PHANTOM FREE WILL huh? I John 3:8 He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING. Lucifer the light-bringing sinless Satan is a Christian HOAX!

    “and told Adam and Eve that they would be like Him if they ate the fruit. ”

    Give me chapter and verse please.

    “Jesus came specifically to reiterate WHO RUNS THIS SHOW!”

    YOU don’t believe that!! You think man is in control. You THINK man has the ability to act dependently from it own creator. I believe in God’s TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY you don’t!!

    Matthew 10:34: “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword”.

    What is that sword Mr. Theologian? A LITERAL SWORD?

    “we will believe. The apostle Paul tells us that “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” (II Cor. 11:14). ”

    And where will you find an “ANGEL OF LIGHT” In a bar? In the pornographers? REMEMBER…. We are talking about someone who posses as a minister of RIGHTEOUSNESS. “ANGEL OF LIGHT” I don’t think your seeing this but most others reading this know EXACTLY what I’m saying. Your “ANGEL OF LIGHT” Is the church ministers.

    “then hell and death will be thrown into the lake of fire.”

    AND IT’S LITERAL!!! Every theologian SHOUTS!! But wait I got a better verse about DEATH. 1 Cor 15:26 death will be ABOLISHED. There’s your GOOD NEWS that you despise so much.

    “Jehovas witness believe in the stupid ‘no hell’ theory,”

    Jehovah witnesses are VERY educated on this topic, BUT the rest of their theology is mixed up. I used to have them knock constantly, TILL I finally decided to give them a piece of my mind on their 144,000 theology. They no longer come see me anymore. I went RIGHT to their scriptures and PROVED to them beyond any shadow of doubt THEY WERE WRONG.VERY few Christians don’t know how to handle this. I handed it to them in 5 minutes. lol.

    “Satan tricks and is the master of LIES!”
    1 Tim4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    Tell me, what would a devil teach? Would a devil teach the success of the cross? Would SATAN have you to believe HE HAS WON?? Your dam right!! And 99% OF Christendom believes just THAT!! And you got suckered into the LIES. And you STILL believe them.

    “Dont get sucked in! ”

    Escape the clutches of this pathetic pagan doctrine of hell.

    “he is “the king of terrors” JOB 18:14. YOU WILL GET TO MEET HIM IF YOU TELL PEOPLE THERE IS NO HELL. ”

    Judgmental little character aren’t you. Jesus said in Jn 3:17 that he did not come to CONDEMN. Who’s doing the condemning? And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!! Give me a verse JUST 1 VERSE that says that a belief in ‘HELL’ is a REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION. Just 1. That’s all I ask for. No one hes yet to provide this verse.

    “God hates satan” You got a verse for that one. But still you have no clue as to who Satan even IS But I’ll give it to you anyways.

    1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    Is God a HYPOCRITE? According to you he is.

    “and he hates it when people DONT DO THEIR HOMEWORK AND TEACH PEOPLE ANYTHING BUT THE TRUTH.”

    Me thinks you haven’t done YOUR homework. But God will REDEEM MY SOUL from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah Psalm 49:15 Souls can be redeemed from the power of sheol (Hebrew word for HELL)! No eternal torture in fire where souls can and will be “REDEEMED”! It should be self-explanatory as to why the translators didn’t translate this particular “sheol” into the English word hell. They sure did NOTwant anyone to know that souls WILL be redeemed from hell. TRY THAT ON FOR SIZE!!

    “I’m afraid you are severely disillusioned about this fact.”

    I am delusional? I don’t think you know what the difference is between up and down.

    “CHANGE YOUR BELIEF”

    Ain’t happening. I AM CONVINCED that God wills ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND I AM CONVINCED THAT GOD DOES ALL HIS WILL. “THY WILL, WILL BE DONE”

    “Good Luck”
    Yep Good luck. I just devoured your little writing on this pagan hell.

  133. Phillip says:

    you say”Married 15 years ya reckon…. who to? Your mum ”

    Isn’t it strange how when people can no longer defend their belief they resort to this type of talk. Shame on you. And your supposed to be this wonderful CHRISTIAN!! Now your showing your true colors. DARK they are VERY DARK.!!

  134. A Champ Matt says:

    OK, So I’ve decided. You are completely right about everything. Can you please forgive me. I can’t believe how wrong I was. I’m glad you told me, you are so spiritually gifted. Im glad i’ve been enlightened by your outstanding wit and intelligence. If you had not turned my evil, troubled, unscriptual ways into THE SPIRITUALLY AWAKENED WAYS OF YOU OH MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE. Then i might have gone to HELL! Thank you dearly for this highly important and vital epiphany that you have bestowed upon me sensai!

  135. Phillip says:

    Don’t ask me for forgiveness. You have done nothing to offend me.

    “I’m glad you told me, you are so spiritually gifted.”

    No I am NOT gifted. I AM spiritually discerned. I know nothing. Now you wondering why I said that.

    “THE SPIRITUALLY AWAKENED WAYS OF YOU OH MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE”

    Don’t even go there. I am NOT God. How blasphemous.

    “Then i might have gone to HELL! ”

    You still don’t get it.

  136. A Champ Matt says:

    Respect….Just one question? Where do we go when we die? If we are followers of Jesus we go…….? If we are not followers of Jesus we go……? You have cut ‘n’ pasted loads of $%!+ from previos debates with others, does anybody agree with your outlook? Does that say something? Your a one man band brother, where as I believe the same truth as over……….. 2 000,000,000 others. Christianity is higher in followers than ANY OTHER MAJOR RELIGION. Islam second highest with 1.3 bill, muslim 1.9 mill. Religion Facts.com- There aint a secret, enchanted place for just you and your wacky ideas. But if there is no hell, you will be ok then? I’m very confused about your afterlife. I still dont know what you believe. Do you? Tell me. I am very confused. You do sound quite intelligent, but i’m no dummy either. One of us has to be right. One wrong. What makes you think that you’re so enlightened, but me, i’m so wrong? Explain please.

  137. Phillip says:

    Sometime I will cut and paste my own statements. For the sake of not typing it again.

    “Your a one man band brother”
    Very few, and I mean VERY FEW, people don’t even conceive what I am saying. BUT I am certainly not alone.

    ‎1 Tim 6:16 ONLY GOD has immortality. It doesn’t get any clearer than this. AND Ecc 9:5 the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING!!

    The doctrine that states man has immortality doesn’t even have a leg to stand on.

    Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not ANY THING…

    consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of DEATH” Psalm 13:3).

    When Lazarus was dead Jesus said
    Our friend Lazarus sleeps: but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep” John 11:11

    But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that SLEPT”I Cor. 15:20

    Is there a Scripture that states when a man dies, he is DEAD? Yes. Does Christendom believe that when a man dies, he is DEAD? No, of course not.

    Tell me. Just how will THE DEAD IN CHRIST rise if the are NOT DEAD. HOW can consciences mean DEATH? Don’t forget Ecc 9:5 now

    Jn 3:13 And NO man hath ascended up to heaven,

    For David is NOT ascended into the heavens Jn 14:2

    Man has an immortal soul? no

    These are scriptures right there in YOUR bible. “ONLY GOD HAS AN IMMORTAL SOUL”And as the fundamentalist ALWAYS SAY “you have an immortal soul” WHAT A CONTRADICTION.

    Read very carefully
    2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, AND willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    Notice: It does not say “absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord. There’s something to think about.

    Let’s not try to make a doctrine based on one verse.okay?

    Let me not be ashamed, O Lord; for I have called upon you: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be SILENT in the grave [Heb: sheol] Psalm 31:17 but they are still ALIVE? NO

    And MY Idea are wacky? So your calling the bible wacky then huh? I’m just giving you scriptures you probably have never seen before.

    Whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is NO work, NOR device, nor KNOWLEDGE, nor WISDOM, in the grave [Heb: sheol], where you go”(Ecclesiastes 9:10). But we are ALIVE when we die? That’s absurd! Scripture interprets scripture. No such thing as man possessing immortality. The word device means contrivance, intelligence and reason. And there are none of these in sheol (meaning hell which is grave). NONE!

    But the righteous go STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN? NO!

    Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth.

    I’m enlightened by what these verses say in contrast to what people believe in teach. What people say is 99% of the time is CONTRADICTIONS.

    What exactly do I believe? I believe Jesus will save the whole entire human race.

    I have debated hundred of Christians about this, and when things get real involved, they look like fools. Not that I try to do that, but that’s just the way it always looks.

    Matt I do not believe you are stupid. But the Christian theology is very mixed up.(I am a Christian) I did believe in a literal hell before. But have you ever even considered the idea of being in real fire for trillions and trillions of CENTURIES? Even then Matt, people would not be 1 second closer to the end of their ordeal. Think Matt,have the mind of Christ, is that really God’s nature? Come on man.

    If you are really seeking. Search truth for yourself. Here is a good place to start.

    http://iswasandwillbe.com/

    This is a very good site to start. It is a very long site. If you have honest questions, he will respond.

  138. A Champ Matt says:

    John 3:16: For God so loved the world……… that He gave His only begotten Son,…… that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM should not PERISH but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
    > WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE THAT ‘DO NOT BELIEVE’, PERISH TO? There is an ultimatum here! Believers in Jesus are saved from hell, non believers in Jesus perish in hell.

    HEBREWS 9:27, Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of ‘MANY’ people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to “those who are waiting for him”.
    > TO DIE ONCE, THEN FACE JUDGEMENT! ‘Heaven or Hell’
    > BRING SALVATION FROM ‘HELL’ TO THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, NOT EVERYBODY!

    “And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.” Mark 9:42
    > WHY IS THIS ‘DROWNING’ BETTER THAN HEAVEN THAT WE ALL GO TO?
    > THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN IS DEATH, LIFE COMES THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST! ONLY! FAITH ONLY, NOT WORKS SO NO-ONE CAN BOAST! OTHERS GO TO HELL.

    THIS NEXT SCRIPTURE WILL OPEN YOUR EYES ^!^

    “The Sheep and the Goats” MATTHEW 25:31
    31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

    41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels-HELL MATE, IN CASE YOU MISSED IT!!. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46“Then they will go away to “ETERNAL PUNISHMENT”, but the righteous to eternal life.”
    > DECIPHER THIS ONE INTO YOUR CRYPTIC, CORRUPT, DELUSIONAL TRICKERY!
    >oh um… it means sheepses are evil.
    >NO SUCH WORD AS ETERNAL??
    >PREACH THE TRUTH, THIS IS YOUR JOB
    GOD BLESS.
    ——————————————————————————–

  139. Phillip says:

    Matt please

    “THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN IS DEATH, LIFE COMES THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST! ONLY! FAITH ONLY, NOT WORKS SO NO-ONE CAN BOAST! OTHERS GO TO HELL. ”

    Punishment for sin is death.But THEN you people change it to LIFE in a pagan place called HELL. Thats just pathetic Matt.

    You didn’t even bother to bother to read 1 link I gave you did you? NO, cause your TOO LAZY to search for YOURSELF. You want someone else to do it FOR YOU.

    I told you exactly where the word eternal came from. You didn’t even read a word I said did you Matt?? Matt IT IS YOUR JOB TO SEEK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION. I can lead a horse to water but I CANNOT MAKE IT DRINK.

    “John 3:16: For God so loved the world……… that He gave His only begotten Son,…… that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM should not PERISH but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
    > WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE THAT ‘DO NOT BELIEVE’, PERISH TO? There is an ultimatum here! Believers in Jesus are saved from hell, non believers in Jesus perish in hell.”

    tell me Matt right now. Where, ANYWHERE in your BIG BOOK where it says Jesus came to save us from HELL. You DO NOT have 1 verse that states this. NOT ONE. Now Matt. NOW YOU state in the SAME paragraph NON believers PERISH. YOU do not even believe the VERY words you speak. MATT WE ALL PERISH. Give me the DEFINITION OF PERISH MATT!!Hint: IT NOT LIFE IN HELL MATT. Since when is up – down Matt? Since when is night – day? Your REALLY think with your little twisted mind that that your KJV bible is the inherent word of God Matt? Why then is this MATT, when you walk into a store to buy a bible there are so many different translations, MATT!! Are they ALL inherent? ANSWER ME MATT ARE THEY ALL THE INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD?? You might says YES. Then answer me Matt, why is it that in the YOUNG’S TRANSLATION it states in Jn 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son — the only begotten — He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. “AGE LIFE” not ETERNAL.

    “NOT WORKS SO NO-ONE CAN BOAST! OTHERS GO TO HELL. ”

    ANSWER ME MATT, FOR THOSE WHOM YOU CONSIGN TO HELL YOU THINK IT THEIR OWN FAULT. ANSWER ME MATT, IF IT’S THEIR FAULT FOR GOING TO HELL, THEN HOW IS IT NOT YOUR CREDIT FOR GOING TO HEAVEN.

    Are you not hypocrite? Boasting is of the heart, but you are careful to keep the words from your lips.

    What would Jesus say about what you are saying Matt. Let’s see

    Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed APPERA beautiful outward, but are within full of DEAD MEN’S BONES, and of all uncleanness.

    Mt 25:46 “Then they will go away to “ETERNAL PUNISHMENT”, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    I learned.Grammar was never my strong point in school,but I have heard it said that an adjective can never take on a different meaning from the noun it was derived from.So if the noun Aion means an age then the adjective Aionion would be dealing with the same thing an age or ages more than one age, but never Eternity.Certain bible scholars accuse Universalists of twisting the meaning of Aion to suit their theology.but actually they do what they accuse us of doing, they readily admit the basic meaning of Aion is an age but somehow in certain passages of scriptures it carries the meaning of Eternity!Depending on the context.Remember what I said Aion means age (even they admit this) But somehow Aionion in certain bible verses means eternal,this is according to what I know a violation of the laws of Grammar an adjective can not take on a different meaning from the noun it was taken from,they surely flunked English! They say Aion means age but in certain bible pasages Aionion goes from an age to eternity! And they accuse us of picking and choosing the meaning of the word to fit our theology! Aion in all its various forms is dealing with an age or ages but never eternity,we consistently translate the word they do not its that simple! 2+2 =4 always, but if mathematics were like bible scholars 2+2 could = 5 in certain cases do you catch my drift?

    Mt 25:46 46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

    Did you not read a word I said earlier about eonian echastening Matt?

    The secular Greek-English lexicon by Bauer, p.28, defines “aionios” and it’s family of words, (“aionion”, “aioniou”) to most commonly mean “without beginning or end” and “eternal”.

    Mr. Bauer’s phrase “to most commonly mean,” of course is a clear statement of admission that not even Mr. Bauer believes that “aionion” ALWAYS means what you suggests it means. I will prove that it does not ever mean “without beginning or end” or “eternal” in the Scriptures. Note: When I refer to the “Scriptures,” I am assuredly not referring to error-filled Bible translations of the Scriptures.

    Furthermore, who cares that the “secular Greek-English lexicon by Bauer” defines aionios as without beginning or end and eternal? Does that mean that we should pick up our tents and go home? Should we burn all the other lexicons and dictionaries on our book shelves, that teach contrary, because “Bauer has spoken?” If a dictionary definition carries weight on this matter, then consider some real scholars on the subject:

    The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth: Eternal: Greek: “aeonion,” i.e., “of the ages.” Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify “during,” but “belong to” the aeons or ages.”

    The Interpreter’s Dictionry of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643): Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for “eternity.” The word aion originally meant “vital force,” “life,” then “age,” “lifetime.”

    Elliot’s Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46(. Everlasting punishment–life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios—it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered “eternal” does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

    Hasting’s Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels): Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting—nonetheless “eternal” is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of “endlessly existing,” and thus to be practically a synonym for “everlasting.” But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370)

    Do you have ANY of these books Matt? READ IT!!

    The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means “BEFORE times eonian.” Since this Scripture tells us that there was time “before” eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be “before” eternity.)

    MATT. TIME BEFORE ETERNITY???? Your fooling your own self if you think there is time before ETERNITY.

    The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693): ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as ‘forever,’ means in itself no more than ‘for an indefinitely long period.” Thus me olam does not mean ‘from eternity’ but ‘of old’ Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

    Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657), Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, “during” but “belonging to” the aeons or ages.

    Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59). The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of “endless” or “everlasting.’ Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

    Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198), “That the adjective is applied to some things which are ‘endless’ does not, of course, for one moment prove that the word itself meant ‘endless;’ and to introduce this rendering into many passages would be utterly impossible and absurd.”

    I have argued this point for years. Just because a word translated WRONGLY can still make sense does NOT justify doing so. Perchance someone might wish to translate Mark 9:41 as follows: “For whosoever shall give you a GLASS OF ICE COLD LEMONADE to drink in my name… shall not lose his reward.” Does not the verse make equal SENSE as when it is correctly translated “A CUP OF WATER?” Yes it does, but that is NOT what the Holy Spirit inspired to be preserved for us. Hence, “a glass of ice cold lemonade” is wrong, just as translating Rom. 16:26 as “the everlasting God,” is wrong. The Holy Spirit inspired the word aionios, which translated to our English equivalent “eonian,” and this is how it must be translated if we are to be faithful to God’s Word.

    In Dr. Farrar’s book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378), “Since aion meant ‘age,’ aionios means, properly, ‘belonging to an age,’ or ‘age-long,’ and anyone who asserts that it must mean ‘endless’ defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant ‘eternity,’ which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek—aionios could still mean only ‘belonging to eternity’ and not ‘lasting through it.”

    Your theology is crumbling Matt. You have no idea what your saying.

    Professor Knappe of Halle wrote, “The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THE ANCIENT LANGUAGES.” (CAPS emphasis are mine).

    Imagine that Matt, the CONCEPT OF ETERNITY IS NOT FOUND IN ANY ANCIENT LANGUAGES.

    So where did it come from. It BEGAN in Egypt, BORROWED BY THE CATHOLICS.Then passed down. Every time you believe in words like everlasting, or eternal, YOU BOW DOWN TO THE CATHOLIC VULGATE BIBLE.

    An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279), “Eternity is not a Biblical theme.” (Vol. 1, p. 52), “What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation.”

    Is that ENOUGH Matt? Or did you not even read the quotes?

    “oh um… it means sheepses are evil.”

    Yes God did create …evil Isa 45:7 I talk about this all the time with people.

    I could write all night about this, BUT. I’ll give you a short answer. Why did God create ANYTHING? THE EARTH? THE HEAVENS? US? ANGELS? ANIMALS? God has always existed, He is SPIRIT. He is LOVE. He is LONELY. GOD WANTS SONS AND DAUGHTERS. Since God is good and God is love, He naturally wants His sons and daughters to be good and love also. Goodness, righteousness, virtue, character, and love AND INANIMATE things cannot be created as a rock, or water, or a star, etc. By the very nature of goodness, virtue, etc., it requires TIME AND CIRCUMSTANCE to develop (or create, if you will) these things. And so God CREATES all that is needed to develop these virtuous traits of character and love. Since any and every virtue that you can think of is the result of overcoming some for of evil, EVIL, therefore, becomes a very important ingredient in the development of virtue, character and love. As God does not DIRECTLY try anyone, He had to create adversaries to do this “dirty work.” And so, God created His OWN ADVERSARY, Satan, the devil. There are lesser adversaries in the form of demons. Goes gives man the illusion of having “free” will, which exalts his pride and vanity and causes him to think he can operate independently from God. This then brings about SIN. SIN is so bad that it needs to be atoned for. God sent His Son Jesus Christ to be this Atonement.

    Only a few are presently called to understand ANY OF THESE THINGS. The rest of humanity will be called at the great white throne judging.

    There was NO evil present with God before Satan, for God UNDERSTANDS all of the ramifications of good and evil. When all enemies and powers are brought under Christ’s subjection, then evil, sin, and even death itself will be abolished. Sin and evil are absolutely necessary in the development of human character, virtue, and love.

    MOST don’t understand why a loving God would create a world such as this. MOST people’s feelings are not that different from most people. Most, however, are not honest enough to admit they have such feelings. Paul says that, “the carnal (natural fleshly) mind is enmity against God; it is not subject to the laws of God, neither is it able” (Rom. 8:7).
    When God opens your understanding that there is as much evil in YOU as there is in the world, then you will begin to understand this scripture. EVERYONE sins, and EVERYONE is LOST before he can be SAVED! God will deliver all creation from all evil. It is only here temporarily. It serves a needful purpose. It is true that there are many mysteries that we do not understand. And yet, there is much that we do understand, at least in part.

    There is nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING that we can come to understand as part of our knowledge, that is not understood by how that bit of knowledge CONTRASTS with OTHER pieces of knowledge. Everything that exists is only understood by contrasts. How does one know what “big” is if he doesn’t know what “small” is, and vice-a-versa? How can we say something is rough if we don’t have any concept of smooth? Up is only up in relation or contrast to down. Light is contrasted with darkness, etc., etc., etc.

    Do you see where this is going? If we are to appreciate “good,” it is essential that we have an experience of “EVIL.” If we are to appreciate (I mean REALLY appreciate) LIFE, then it is essential that we ALL DIE!!!

    And so, God in His infinite wisdom, has provided all of these things–we call it CREATION–so that mankind might experience all that is necessary to humble, educate, experience, and appreciate, the wonderful things that God has prepared for us.

    All the ugly, evil, and misery of life can be likened to the scaffolding of a building. While creation of the new building is in progress, the scaffolding is an eye-sore, and serves NO PRACTICAL PURPOSE except the actual creation of the building. But, when the beautiful building is completed, we tear down the ugly scaffolding and throw it away–it serves no more useful purpose to our completed building, EVER. And so we read that even DEATH, the LAST ENEMY, will be ABOLISHED (I Cor. 15:26)!!

    God will not torture ANYONE, not even Hitler or Saddam Hussein (or his two wretched sons), for all eternity. That is UNSCRIPTURAL and THAT IS INSANE! Mind you, God WILL chastise ALL OF HIS CHILDREN, and correct them to think, and do, and live, right! And sometimes times God spanks very hard, but He does not TORTURE for all ETERNITY. That is MAD! That is satanic beyond description! God is love, and He will be merciful to His creatures.

    “HEBREWS 9:27, Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,”

    And what HAPPENS AT JUDGMENT??

    Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN righteousness.

    When God JUDGES MAN, THEY WILL LEARN. Why can’t you get your stiff neck around this? Why don’t you have a response to what I say? You keep dancing all over the bible to prove your pagan hell. There is NOT ONE VERSE ANYWHERE IN THE PAGES OF YOUR BIBLE THAT PROVES YOUR DOCTRINE OF HELL.

  140. Ceejay says:

    In all honesty, i was a bit suspicious about this mans story about being in Hell for 23 minutes. Thought came into my mind like……….. I thought God is a Loving God, why would he send Bill there?, and why remove his memory and allow him to experience Hell?, Does God enjoy watching people suffer?….and more questions like that. But then i started to think……..Even if this man was lying, he knows what the consequences are for going false preachings and being a liar, So why would he spend so much time trying to deceive other people when he himself knows what he’s getting into. I also thought, i think God has a special assignment for all of us, and that happened to be Bill’s assignment, not to make money off of his books, but to warn people about this place he does not want us to go to. So if Bill was lying about his story(which i don’t think he is) then he knows exactly what he is getting himself into. That’s just my opinion, i am just a human being like each one of you, and other people will have other claims to his story, along with Mary K. Baxter’s story.
    Well that’s all I have to say.
    God Bless all of you.

    • A Champ Matt says:

      Well said ceejay, I also do believe whole heartedly God is love and if we reject Jesus, we will understand the hoplessness and fear that he protects us from in His presence. Hell is real, this place is so real. Its claimed 11,000,000 americans have had NDE (near death experiences), of these people, nobody says, “der, nothing is there” they get a taste TO WARN US UNBELIEVERS OF WHAT WE HAVE IN STORE FOR US. Do you people go to the casino to bet everything you have on black? If not why would you bet everything you have, plus your life and eternity on what you believe is the winning colour. Call me outrages, i’m real and we ALL KNOW DEEP DOWN THAT OUR SPIRIT LIVES ON, HEAVEN OR HELL, JESUS OR SATAN, TIME IS TICKING, CHOICE IS YOURS. REPENT, THE TIME IS NEAR. If your not with Him, then your against Him. LOVE YOU ALL. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION EVER PUT FORTH IN YOUR WHOLE LIFE.

  141. A Champ Matt says:

    EONS, IONS, AIONS, ALIENS. MATE TAKE A FOOTY FIELDS STEP BACK, CLEAN THE BOOGIES OUT OF YOUR EYES AND TAKE A GOOD, SIMPLE LOOK AT THE BIBLE. BIBLE SCHOLARS CAN’T BE THE ONLY PEOPLE WORTHY OF SPENDING ETERNITY IN THE HOUSE OF GOD! TELL ME THE SCRIPTURE WHERE YOU THINK HE WANTS HIS HOUSE FULL OF STOOGES MATE! HE DESIRES MERCY NOT SACRIFICE. HIS WORD IS SIMPLICITY WRAPPED IN LOVE. IF YOU CANT UNWRAP THIS ‘READY TO CRACK NUT’ YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY IN HELL! I DIDNT MAKE THE RULES. IF I HAD MY WAY THERE WOULD BE NO HELL. BUT WHO DIED AND MADE ME BOSS. LIKEWISE, CAREFULLY SMELL THE ROSES. YOU DONT NEED TO ANALYSE THE ROSE, THEN TELL ME ABOUT THE PHOTOSYNTHETIC EFFECT OF THE DIFFUSION OF WATER UP THE PHLOEM WHICH IN TURN NECESSITATES THE PERSPIRATION THUS COOLING THE PLANT AND ULTIMATELY THE FLOWER! JUST SMELL IT, AND IF YOU ARE SO INCLINED, MARVEL AT ITS BEAUTY. KIDS KNOW ABOUT HELL, JUST COS YOUR A BIG BOY NOW AND DONT BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS, DOES NOT MEAN THAT HELL IS ALSO A MYTH, OR THAT YOU HIGHLY INTELLIGENT THEOLOGIANS HAVE CONCLUDED THAT HELL IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN MISUNDERSTOOD AS PAGAN CLICHE! THIS THEORY OF YOURS RAISES MANY QUESTIONS, BUT ANSWERS NONE. ANARCHY IS PREVALENT IN BORED HOUSEHOLDS, SIMPLE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO RECRUIT OTHER HALF-WITS TO MAKE A FALSE STAND AND/OR TO BE THE MESSIAH WE HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR AND TO PURILY GO AGAINST THE GRAIN OF SOCIETY. AND FINALLY, TO CONCLUDE THIS DEBATE OF ME VERSUS A BRICK WALL, I’D LIKE TO LEAVE YOU WITH SOME BRAIN FOOD, “Then the kings earth and the great ones and the Generals and the rich and the powerful ones, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of wrath has come, and who can stand?” REVELATIONS 6:15-17 SHOULD THIS SURPRISE US?….

  142. Phillip says:

    My question is this. Why would God show someone this pagan place called hell it they already believed in it? Why not show someone that DOES NOT believe in it?

    Eon is the English word for the Greek word Aion.

    Grammar was never my strong point in school,but I have heard it said that an adjective can never take on a different meaning from the noun it was derived from.So if the noun Aion means an age then the adjective Aionion would be dealing with the same thing an age or ages more than one age, but never Eternity.Certain bible scholars accuse Universalists of twisting the meaning of Aion to suit their theology.but actually they do what they accuse us of doing, they readily admit the basic meaning of Aion is an age but somehow in certain passages of scriptures it carries the meaning of Eternity!Depending on the context.Remember what I said Aion means age (even they admit this) But somehow Aionion in certain bible verses means eternal,this is according to what I know a violation of the laws of Grammar an adjective can not take on a different meaning from the noun it was taken from,they surely flunked English! They say Aion means age but in certain bible pasages Aionion goes from an age to eternity! And they accuse us of picking and choosing the meaning of the word to fit our theology! Aion in all its various forms is dealing with an age or ages but never eternity,we consistently translate the word they do not its that simple! 2+2 =4 always, but if mathmaticians were like bible scholars 2+2 could = 5 in certain cases do you catch my drift?

    Again no adjective can mean something different than the noun from which it was derived thus ages can’t magically become eternity in
    certain passages no matter how much theologians want them to! Saying Aion means age in one passage and then …saying it means eternal in one of its other various forms is a violation of the laws of grammar pure and simple.They say we pick and choose the meaning of Aion to suit our theology but actually we translate it consistently they are the ones who pick and choose its meaning to suit their theology.Again in the world of religion 2+2 can =5 in some cases,or cars can become 747′s in certain cases,This is no more silly than saying an age or ages can become an eternity in some cases.The translators are taking great liberties changing the meaning of Aion in certain scriptures to back up eternal torment.

    Matt. Never have I said the wrath of God isn’t true, your twisting what I’m saying.

    The salvation of all does not deny that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men (Rom 1:18). There is no doubt whatever as to the fact that the Bible clearly teaches wrath, not only in this age (eon) but in the age (eon) which is to come. God will NOT be mocked. Whatever we sow, we will reap. But God’s wrath is defined in Romans 1:18, 24, 26, 28. God’s wrath is just giving us up to our own evil desires and allowing us to reap what we have sown.

    The word Judgment means to set right or to turn around or turn back. God chastens us to turn us around, so we’ll head in the right direction. That’s the way we discipline our own children. Psalm 94:15 says, But judgement shall RETURN unto righteousness.

    Psalm 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction: and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

    If destruction means annihilation, then how could anyone return to God after they have been permanently annihilated?

    In 1 Cor 5:5, Paul tells us to To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Destruction is NOT annihilation or eternal torment, but the PROCESS to SALVATION!

  143. Phillip says:

    Stories like 23 min in hell, divine revelation of hell, etc are ALL fear mongering stories. When do they EVER express God love in their stories? VERY SELDOM, if any at all.

    Is your faith in hell(fear) or a Loving God? 1 John 4:18:There is NO FEAR in love. But perfect love DRIVES OUT fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. A real true undeniable unconditional relationship can NEVER be built on fear. Fear breeds confusion, jealousy, envy, strife, backbitting, faultfinding, etc… Love on the other hand is patient, is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

    If you people could wrap your minds around this, they would see that he is not going to throw people away, but has made a way through Christ that all will come back to Him.

  144. A Champ Matt says:

    If there is no Hell….. why are you so worried. Guilty? God is love, failure to comply with His decrees, eg- Having a right relationship with Jesus, equals the death we all have on Earth, then eternal torment. Aions damnation, eons burnies, ainoinons in firery torment!!!!!NO ENTRY IN HIS PRESENCE (HEAVEN):)

  145. A Champ Matt says:

    Ultimately Phillip, I do enjoy your replies, so thank-you! I just dont want people to become complaicent about this highly important subject, hell, and its existence. The old ‘outta sight, outta mind’ idea does not help us fathom the sheer importance of knowing the truth. For every up there’s a down, for every big, a small, every white, a black, a wet, a dry you get it…. Why not a God and a satan? Yes you believe satan exists….? If there is a Heaven then why the fable is there no hell. God is love, true, God is invisible, yes, God is just/fair certainly. Then where would Hitler be? Where would Stalin be, Where would the sep.11 hijackers be? In heaven with 40 virgins? Wow, what am I doin wasting my time here? Could have 40 virgins in my harem of a castle, Dead? Yeah but where would their spirits be? It has to go somewhere…..? He just dies, for all that evil….? Gets a good sleep, no payment for the bad seed he planted on earth…..? Hmmm, I see. Thats just, they were very righteous, to the point of being completely evil. Hated God, probably loved the devil. Hmmm, I should tred all over people, start a huge gang called the Killaz(what you lookin at), be absolutely loaded through extortion and drugs…. What a great life. All i get after being an absolute bastard all my life, a never ending sleep. Well worth my extravagant lifestyle. Whats that you say…..? Jesus died for our sins….? YES ‘HE DID so that we “MIGHT” have everlasting life’, JOHN 3:16, and I realize you know that…. but does that mean we ALL go to Heaven? Why does it say in, Matt 7:13,

    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it.
    >HEAVEN?
    But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and ONLY A FEW FIND IT”.???
    >HELL?
    OH BOYS AND GIRLZ DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT…. TAKE HIS, COS MAN DOES NOT LIVE IN BREAD ALONE! Luke 4:4:

    And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
    AFTER 2000 YEARS NO STATEMENT IN THE BIBLE HAS EVER BEEN DISPROVED BY ANY EXPERT IN ANY FEILD….THE REASON IS THIS: ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED, SO WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT IT AS THE WORD OF MAN, BUT AS IT ACTUALLY IS, THE LIVING BREATHING WORD OF GOD!!!! OVER A QUARTER OF THE WORLD CAN’T BE WRONG EITHER. OUR GOD IS LOVE, YEAH HE IS ALSO JUST. HE DID NOT LIE IN THE BIBLE. HE HAS ENOUGH GRACE AND MERCY TO LET ANY SINNER INTO HEAVEN. JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED, REPENT AND LIVE. LOVE FROM YOUR BROTHER MATT :)

  146. Phillip says:

    “If there is no Hell….. why are you so worried. ”

    Your the one hanging onto hell. I’m the one who’s not in bondage to this fear of hell, you are.

    “Aions damnation, eons burnies, ainoinons in firery torment!”

    Aions, have you ever done any study on Greek? Aion means AGE, Matt. Not eternal.

    The Greek word for FIRE is pur. Strong’s concordance #4442. meaning PURIFICATION!! Your in bondage to your idols of your heart Matt. Your wrong, there is absolutely nothing in the scriptures that prove the word eternal, or literal pain. If we are raised spiritual bodies, tell me Matt Just how in the world do you set a spirit on fire with LITERAL FIRE? “From dust we came, from dust you shall return”

    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it.”

    I’ll says this AGAIN. Psalm 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction: and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

    If destruction means annihilation (OR LITERAL FIRE IN TORMENT), then how could anyone return to God after they have been permanently annihilated?

    ANSWER MY QUESTIONS MATT.

    Destruction is NOT annihilation or eternal torment, but the PROCESS to SALVATION!

    “NO ENTRY IN HIS PRESENCE (HEAVEN):)”
    1 Tim 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in DUE TIME.
    1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive
    1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own ORDER: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    “I just dont want people to become complaicent about this highly important subject, hell, and its existence.”

    How hypocritical. Your complacent in your religions teaching of this doctrine, yet your going to say something like this? How foolish can you people be?

    “If there is a Heaven then why the fable is there no hell.”

    The only fable here Matt is this disgusting fable doctrine of HELL!! Strongs concordance #86 Hades. Greek word for HELL meaning GRAVE. It say NOTHING about fire PERIOD!! LOOK IT UP MATT IT’S THERE. Quit being so stubborn.

    “Why not a God and a satan?” Isa 45:7 GOD CREATED EVIL.

    “God is love, true, God is invisible, yes, God is just/fair certainly. Then where would Hitler be? Where would Stalin be, Where would the sep.11 hijackers be? In heaven with 40 virgins? ”

    You will say God is love…BUT, he is also just and must punish sinners 4ever. YOU DEMEAN GOD’S GREATEST EXPRESSION OF LOVE IN HIS SON’S SACRIFICIAL DEATH FOR ALL MANKIND! Talk about justice!? How UNJUST this is to HIM who propitiated the sins of the whole world, who gave His life as a ransom FOR ALL 1Jn 2:2, 1 Tim2:6. To recognize hell’s remedial purpose in no way contradicts his holiness, justice, or sacrifice. It actually MAGNIFIES them. How can we qualify or limit A LOVE THAT never fails! 1Cor 13:8 If God is love 1Jn 4:8 and is NEVER vengeful You say it’s forever? in torment of hell. What a load a crap! His anger is but for a moment Ps 30:5 Why is it on earth God’s anger lasts but for a moment, and his favor is for life, but after his death His favor is not even a moment and his anger is forever? How is it possible God’s love can change so drastically at the drop of a hat? Lam 3:31 For the LORD will [NOT] cast off [FOR EVER] ANSWER me Matt. Since God loved us, will God not ALWAYS LOVE MAN????? Your tromping ALL OVER the death burial and resurrection of Christ, and what his character is all about. Your a SHAME MATT. What did Jesus say about this teaching of hell when he was talking to the Pharisees?

    Mt 23

    “But WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… FOR YOU SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AGAINST MEN… (did you catch that Matt?) “YOU shut UP the kingdom of heave against men!! Remember this is Jesus speaking here.

    …THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERS

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… you DEVOUR WIDOW’S HOUSES… you shall receive the greater damnation.

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES…

    WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES…

    You FOOLS AND BLIND…

    You FOOLS AND BLIND…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You… have omitted… JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH…

    You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.

    You BLIND PHARISEES…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS… and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES!… you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.

    You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES… you KILL AND CRUCIFY… you SCOURGE in your synagogues… Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE”!!

    Jesus call the religions LEADERS of that day “GENERATION OF SNAKES”
    Now I’ll say the same to you Matt. “YOU SERPENT”

    “It has to go somewhere…..?”

    You go to THE GRAVE when you die. EVERYONE!! NO man has ascended to heaven, NO man has been risen. YOU ARE NOT IMMORTAL. When you die YOU ARE DEAD!! You CLAIM that Jesus DIED, but you DO not believe he ACTUALLY DIED!!

    “OUR GOD IS LOVE”

    NOW START TREATING LIKE GOD IS A GOD OF LOVE. If the devil was even able to steal one soul from God, wouldn’t that make the devil more powerful or more wise than God?

    You HYPOCRITE MATT, YOU SPEAK WITH A FORKED TONGUE.

    Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples

    Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.
    But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.
    Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.
    But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.
    Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
    But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed “free” will? No.
    Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.
    But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.
    Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.
    But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.
    Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.
    But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is “inerrant” has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.
    Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.
    But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.
    Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.
    But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.
    Do they believe that Sodom is “suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.
    But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.
    Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.
    But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.
    Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that “For as in Adam ALL die?” Yes.
    But do they teach the last half, “even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?” No.
    Do they believe that “…the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]” ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.
    But do they teach that this same “aion — age” in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.
    Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.
    But do they teach this truth that “NO man,” including David, has gone to heaven? No.
    Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.
    But do they teach that God’s “will” to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.
    Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, “thou shalt not surely die?” Yes.
    But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.
    Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.
    But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called “inerrant” King James Bible contained fourteen such
    books, including “Tobit,” “Judith,” “The idol Bel and the Dragon”? No.
    Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.
    But do they teach that “no man can” come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.
    Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.
    But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan “sinned from the beginning?” No.
    Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.
    But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.
    Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to “sleep?” Yes.
    But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, “sleeping” till resurrection? No.
    Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.
    But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.
    Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
    But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.
    Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.
    But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.
    Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes
    But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.
    Do they believe that God absolutely “knows all” (I John 3:20)? Yes.
    But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.
    Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.
    But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.
    Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.
    But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.
    Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
    But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.
    Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.
    But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.
    Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.
    But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.
    Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
    But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

    There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God’s Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.

    WAKE UP and smell the coffee.

  147. Phillip says:

    Matt I bet you didn’t know there is a scathing critique of Bill Weise’s book did you. Listen to ALL the contradiction, and lies. There are 10 parts to this series.

  148. Phillip says:

    these videos EXPOSE over 50 contradiction and LIES.

    Enough said.

    “we don’t do this for the money”

  149. Phillip says:

    Aion is the adjective of AIONION “An Age” proper has a beginning and an ending otherwise it does not qualify as an age. According to Webster’s Dictionary it could be referring to how old a man is; like “what is YOUR AGE” meaning how many years have you been alive since your BEGINNING on this planet. then when we die it is the ENDING of our AGE, if I died today MY AGE would have been 53 years old. Also Webster says “That part of the duration of a being, which is between its beginning and any given time” in plain English that means A PERIOD OF TIME WITH A BEGINNING AND AN ENDING. So to answer your question; this is a fantasy there is no such thing as an age with no end it is impossible. That would be like saying you have a tape measure that has no end….. you would be dreaming…

  150. A Champ Matt says:

    You call me a ‘hypocrite’ many times, do you even know what one is….? It comes from the two latin words, “HYPO” meaning in excess of, too much, and “crite”, meaning ‘to critisize’. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca(Contempt),’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. …Matthew 5:5- easy one to remember……

  151. Phillip says:

    I didn’t call you a hypocrite, THE SCRIPTURES DO. You have NEVER READ Mt 23 have you? Evidently not cause you would have known where that came from.

  152. Phillip says:

    So JESUS HIMSELF is in danger of hell fire? Go pray that to Jesus.

  153. Phillip says:

    How opposite of God’s mercy can you get? As I stated above you fundamental Christian speak with a forked tongue. You contradict yourselves over and over. Matt you don’t want the salvation of all to be true, cause if you did then you would take what I say more serious.

    “Ye hypocrite”
    Mt 23:15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one convert, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of HELL than YOURSELVES.

    24Ye blind guides, which strain AT a gnat, and swallow a camel.

    Jesus is speaking to people JUST LIKE YOU MATT right here who teach that few will be saved Why????? Because you SHUT OUT THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN TO MEN verse. 13.

    NOW. go back to vs. 15.5Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one convert, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of HELL than YOURSELVES.

    Matt your gospel is more TOXIC THAN A BLACK MAMBA SNAKE. I despise this EVIL EVIL, DOCTRINE OF HELL!!!!

    Matt you are descendant with PRIDE.

  154. Phillip says:

    The depths of God’s mercy knows no limits. And OHHHHH how we human JUST LOVE to put LIMITS on an ALL POWERFUL GOD.Get your mind out of the ditch Matt. Above all else the HEART IS WICKED. Jeremiah 17:9

    It’s time you had better start thinking with your mind Matt and not your heart.

  155. A Champ Matt says:

    Hope you right, for your sake my friend.

  156. Phillip says:

    “for my sake” ?

    Since when is a belief in hell a REQUIREMENT for salvation?

    • A Champ Matt says:

      If anyone teaches false doctrines…..

      Not knowing the whole truth but only part therof, is just the same, if not worse than knowing nothing at all……

      Especially if teaching your lost ideals to immature Christians, my friend….

      If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. (1 Tim. 6:3-5)

      “I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.” (Acts 20:29-30)

      Then [when we become spiritually mature] we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. (Eph. 4:14)

      BE ON YOUR GUARD BROTHER, NOT FROM ME,OR ANY MAN… BUT FROM HE WHO CAN SEND YOU TO HELL!
      matt-10:28

      This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD… Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” declares the LORD. “They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least,” declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:16,32)

      But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. (2 Peter 2:1-3)

      It’s not so much ‘for your sake’, but for those you teach….. READ CAREFULLY, then you may know the truth in which to give knowledge to ‘immature Christians’ who need ‘spiritual milk’ not solid food that is tainted with error…. HELL IS REAL, WATCH-OUT!

  157. Phillip says:

    You STILL did not answer my question.

    Since when is a belief in hell a REQUIREMENT for salvation? Answer me.

    ((The Christian Hell is a Christian HOAX, and it is the very EPITOME of “DAMNABLE HERESY.” And the teaching of this evil and vile doctrine is the greatest sin ever committed in the history of the world. And be forewarned: Teaching that God Almighty will either cause or allow most of humanity to be TORTURED IN LITERAL FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY is the ULTIMATE SIN! There is no greater sin possible. It is the blasphemy of ALL BLASPHEMIES. The wickedness of the human heart cannot sink one centimeter lower than to believe in his heart that God Almighty, “THE SAVIOUR OF THE WHOLE WORLD, WHOSE MERCY ENDURES FOR ALL AGES,” will torture most of humanity in fire for all eternity without mercy or salvation, and then you call it “JUSTICE” and calmly state that “HELL… IS… FAIR!” )) I say you can’t see the depth of SATAN when it’s STARRING YOU STRAIGHT IN THE FACE. THEN you have the GALL gall to give me THIS…

    “If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. (1 Tim. 6:3-5)” Matt, young man, GROW UP!! Maybe you need to read this verse,then go stare at yourself in the mirror!!

    “Especially if teaching your lost ideals to immature Christians, my friend….”

    “Then [when we become spiritually mature] we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. (Eph. 4:14)

    Mat you know absolutely NOTHING about spiritual MATURITY. All children think they are mature. ALL babes in Christ “are yet carnal!” Paul says “I determined to know nothing among you but Christ and Him crucified.” Next he says “I have fed you with milk.” The obvious message is that babes in Christ will invariably receive this great powerful light of truth in a carnal way, that is, ‘Christ died in my stead so I don’t have to die.’ “I am crucified with Christ,” and “I die daily” is the meat which most are even now unable to receive. This is the “we speak wisdom in a mystery, even the HIDDEN wisdom meat of the word, among them that are perfect becoming mature.”

    Those who teach a perverted, half-truth grace and who teach only a perverted, half-truth Christ and Him crucified CANNOT receive the meat of “to you it is given IN BEHALF OF CHRIST, NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIS SAKE” Phi 1:29. This too, is the meat which ‘babes in Christ…neither yet now are able’ to receive 1Co 3:1-2

    There are no spiritually mature babes! Even the apostle Paul went into Arabia and spent time unlearning his own destructive ways. Nowhere are we told exactly how long Paul spent in the wilderness of Arabia, but Christ Himself spent 40 days in the wilderness in preparation for His ministry. Had the babes in Christ Corinthians, or the foolish Galatians, or the you ought to be teachers…but now you are in need of being taught. Hebrews been “driven of the Spirit into the wilderness…to be tempted of the devil” (Mar 1:12; Mat 4:1)? Well, they were certainly being tempted. But unlike Christ they were unskillful in the word of righteousness: for they were babes…using milk (Heb 5:13) and THINKING it was strong meat. This is why so many of God’s people are in this IMMATURE condition.

    Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

    The church teaches NOTHING but milk (Jesus Christ and Him crucified) and they THINK it is meat. So Paul tells them “Ye are yet carnal.” Matt is Paul telling you this very same thing? Well, by your lack of understand that the smallest of words like ‘hell’ you SHOULD know where this word came from. YOU DON’T!! The word hell wasn’t even in our dictionaries till HUNDREDS of years AFTER the death of Christ. It is PAGAN.

    Are you a CARNAL Christian Matt? Are you mature or immature? The immature ONLY see Jesus dying on the cross for them, but the mature see themselves dying with Him. The immature are only concerned about themselves and their own burdens; the mature are concerned about bearing the burdens of others. The immature TRY to please God out of NECESSITY; the mature out of LOVE and GRATITUDE. The immature ONLY see ‘Christ and Him crucified;’ the mature ‘I AM crucified WITH Christ.’ The immature ask ‘what is PERMISSIBLE, the mature ask ‘what is COMMENDABLE. The immature see ONLY the half-grace of undeserved pardon for sins;(MATT?) the mature see the OTHER half of grace in its CHASTENING, PURIFYING FUNCTION.The grace of God…teacheth Gr. paideuo #3811 CHASTENS us (NOT TORTURE) to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world, Greek age Tit 2:11-12.

    What is the penalty for UNBELIEF? Torment forever and ever and ever? For trillions of centuries?

    Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman (Gal 4:30). No, Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children are those who still identify with Mount Sinai. They will not be made heir with the children of the freewoman, those who do not desire to be under law. Those who desire to be under the law, do not believe the words of Christ Himself or the words he inspired Paul to write. These immature Christians will come up in the second resurrection, “when Sodom and her daughters will be returned to their former estate” Eze 16:55. And so all Israel shall be saved…Rom 9:25-26 Did you know that ALL Israel will be saved? Have you EVER read this verse Matt? Have you EVER read your bible?Have you EVER read a concordance? Do you even own one? I have SEVERAL. Matt, can you read Greek? Or at least have you EVER even studied ANY Greek? You think your KJV was held IN TACT since the VERY FIRST writings? HOW STUPID!! If you had know ANYTHING ABOUT the Christian history YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THE KJV CAME FROM LATIN NOT GREEK.

    “It’s not so much ‘for your sake’, but for those you teach….. ”

    teaching that ALL will be saved IS the gospel. The word ‘heaven’ is mentioned 565 times in the entire gospel, and hell/grave is mentioned ONLY 56 TIMES. And your GOOD NEWS is that the MAJORITY OF MANKIND WILL BURN FOREVER?????? EXCUSE ME, THIS IS BAD NEWS.

    It’s Saturday Matt, go spend $20 and buy you a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordant of the bible AND LOOK UP THE WORD ‘HADES’.#86 in the Greek AND READ IT!.

  158. Phillip says:

    Either everyone before Jesus goes to hell, OR the sacrifice on the cross was unnecessary. It doesn’t get any more clear than this Matt.

  159. A Champ Matt says:

    For 53 years old, you are having more trouble understanding His word than a child. Must be alzheimers…. or could be an example of the fact that ‘you cant teach an old dogs new tricks’… Either way Phillip, i’m afraid that your hell theory, or lack thereof, is incorrect. You think that God is love….. Good start, He is indeed, this does not fulfill the obvious truth that His word is made of ultimate justice. Where is the justice if ‘everyone’ goes to Heaven Phillip….? Here’s an analogy of love and what the consequences of disobedience can entail. If, for instance, my child, though I LOVE HIM DEARLY, went on a shooting rampage and was the cause of a 30 person massacre and came back to me, for assurance and a good hiding place, and I was a judge of the supreme courts, would I not send hang my head in disgrace and send him to jail…..? This is a tricky one…..But I would. God is JUST. Meaning that His judgement has been set! The only way out of this mess for any person, is to HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS. This comes about by showing love to others, showing your most profound love to Jesus, and by praying and asking Him to forgive your sins…. daily. He is sad whenever one of His children go to hell, this is why – His fathers judgement is set…. He was not yet born when this judgement was set, you are lucky enough to be born out of the 360,000,000 sperm in one single ejaculation, the fact that you were not born a cat, or a dung beetle, but a MAN, in His image… He gives us, sometimes up to 100 years to find Him…. If not….we go directly to HELL. No talking to GOD, no chats with the angels! Universalism, I know is very popular, though it is a sugar coated fairy-land theory… If only it were the truth, how magically wonderful. As American theologian R. C. Sproul puts it, “God is viewed as being so “Loving” that he really doesnt care too much if we keep His law. The law is there to guide us, but if we stumble and fall, our celestial Grandfather will merely wink and say, “Boys will be boys”. What an absolute load of horse shit…. Universalism is understandably popular, but there is not a single trace of the idea in the Bible. Instead, it provides people between those who are ‘saved’(Romans 10:13) and those who are lost(Luke 19:10); between those who are ‘in the light’(Isaiah 2:5) and those who are in darkness (proverbs 4:19); between those who beyond the grave will experience ‘eternal life’ and those who will experience ‘eternal punishment’(Matthew 25:46). To believe that after death there will be prizes for everybody and punishment for nobody is to fly in the face of what the Bible teaches. Far from guaranteeing eternal life for EVERYBODY, God says, ‘Behold I set before you the way of life and the way of death’(jeremiah 21:8). What is more, He also gives us a clear instruction and an equally clear warning: ‘Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to LIFE, and those who find IT ARE FEW’ (matthew 7:13-14). In the light of these statements, the idea that we will all ‘live happily ever after’ has no more credibility than a fairy tale. DARE NOT RELY ON IT!!! Hell is real, my friend, ex-alcoholic/drug abuser, died of a liver failure, awaiting the new liver, he died and went through a door…. It smelled of sulphur and was full of screams… A hand grabbed Him and said ‘NOT NOW MY CHILD’, when he awoke they had found for him a liver, the surgery should have taken 22 hours, it took just over 8, ‘it slotted right in’ apparently. He is now a born again Christian, he is a bit of a recluse now, changed heaps from the old party animal I knew… PRAISE JESUS.

  160. Phillip says:

    Not a single trace huh? Is this not a trace?

    1. 1 Timothy 2:4 God will have all to be saved
    2. 1 Timothy 2:6 Salvation of all is testified in due time (All will be save in God’s timing)
    3. Ephesians 1:11 God works all after the counsel of His will (Who’s will)
    4. John 12:47 Jesus came to save all (But all won’t be saved?)
    5. John 4:42 Jesus is the Savior of the world (But he won’t save the world?)
    6. 1 John 4:14 Jesus is the Savior of the world
    7. John 12:32 Jesus draws all to Himself (Greek is to DRAG)
    8. Hebrews 7:25 Jesus is able to save to the uttermost
    9. Colossians 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of all creation
    10. Colossians 1:16 By Him all things were created (Will Christ lose most of his most precious creation?)
    11. Romans 5:15-21 In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live
    12. 1 Corinthians 15:22 In Adam all die, in Christ all live
    13. Ephesians 1:10 All come into Him at the fullness of times (ALL come to God in GOD’S time. Not ours!)
    14. 1 Corinthians 15:26 Last enemy, death, will be destroyed Death destroyed, including the lake of fire)
    15. Philippians 2:9-11 Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord
    16. 1 Corinthians 12:3 Cannot confess except by the Holy Spirit (So much fo accepting Christ on your own!)
    17. Romans 11:26 All Israel will be saved
    18. Acts 3:20-21 Restitution of all (ALL??)
    19. Luke 2:10 Jesus will be joy to all people
    20. Ephesians 2:7 His grace shown in the ages to come
    21. Hebrews 8:11-12 All will know God (KNOW God?)
    22. Titus 2:11 Grace has appeared to all
    23. Romans 8:19-21 Creation set at liberty
    24. Colossians 1:20 All reconciled unto God (All back to God! Or back to hell?)
    25. 1 Corinthians 4:5 All will have praise of God
    26. James 5:11 End of the Lord is full of mercy (And hell is mercy?)
    27. Revelation 15:4 All nations worship when judgments are seen
    28. II Corinthians 5:17 New creation in Christ
    29. Romans 11:32 All subject to unbelief, mercy on all (God will have mercy on ALL unbelievers!)
    30. Romans 11:36 All out of God, through Him, and into Him
    31. Ephesians 4:10 Jesus will fill all things
    32. Revelation 5:13 All creation seen praising God
    33. 1 Corinthians 15:28 God will be all in all (Tired of seeing ALL yet?)
    34. Revelation 21:4-5 No more tears, all things made new
    35. John 5:25 All dead who hear will live
    36. John 5:28 All in the grave will hear and come forth
    37. 1 Corinthians 3:15 All saved, so as by fire (The lake of fire is what will purify us and save us ALL!)
    38. Mark 9:49 Everyone shall be salted with fire
    39. Romans 11:15 Reconciliation of the world
    40. II Corinthians 5:15 Jesus died for all (But Jesus won’t get what he paid for??)
    41. John 8:29 He always does what pleases His Father (If it pleases his father to save ALL,why are you so upset??)
    42. Hebrews 1:2 He is heir of all things
    43. John 3:35 All has been given into His hand
    44. John 17:2 Jesus will give eternal life to all whom His Father gives to Him
    45. John 13:3 The Father gave Him all things
    46. I Timothy 4:9-11 Jesus is the Savior of all (NOT some!)
    47. Isaiah 46:10 God will do all His pleasure
    48. Daniel 4:35 God’s will done in heaven and earth
    49. Proverbs 16:9 Man devises, God directs his steps (So much for free will)
    50. Proverbs 19:21 Man devises, but God’s counsel stands
    51. Psalms 33:15 God fashions all hearts (More of that ALL)
    52. Deuteronomy 32:39 God kills and makes alive
    53. Psalms 90:3 God turns man to destruction then says “return” (Wide is the path to destruction, but Christ came to save that which was lost!)
    54. Lamentations 3:31,32God will not cast off forever (So much for eternal torment)
    55. Isaiah 2:2 All nations shall flow to the Lord’s house
    56. Genesis 18:18 All families of earth will be blessed
    57. Isaiah 45:23 All descendants of Israel justified
    58. Psalms 138:4 All kings will praise God
    59. Psalms 72:18 God only does wondrous things
    60. Psalms 86:9 All nations will worship God
    61. Psalms 65:2-4 All flesh will come to God (All flesh!! Not some)
    62. Psalms 66:3-4 Enemies will submit to God
    63. Isaiah 19:14-25 Egypt and Assyria will be restored
    64. Ezekiel 16:55 Sodom will be restored (Sodom?)
    65. Psalms 22:25-29 All will turn to the Lord and all families will worship before Him
    66. Psalms 145:9-10 He is good to all and merciful to all His work (Good to all except the sinner?)
    67. Psalms 145:14 God raises all who fall
    68. Psalms 145:16 God satisfied the desire of the living
    69. Psalms 145:10 All God’s will praise Him
    70. Isaiah 25:6 Lord makes feast for all people
    71. Isaiah 25:7 Will destroy veil that is spread over all nations
    72. Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory (And the lake of fire is forever?)
    73. Jeremiah 32:35 Never entered His mind to burn people in fire (But he will do it anyways?)
    74. Psalms 135:6 God does what pleases Him
    75. Isaiah 26:9 The world will learn righteouness through judgment

    “Universalism is understandably popular, but there is not a single trace of the idea in the Bible. ”

    It’s popular huh? Then why do the MAJORITY of Christians believe in eternal torment? I think it you that has a difficult time understanding all these verses. Grow up kid.

    “Where is the justice if ‘everyone’ goes to Heaven Phillip….? ”

    Where is the justice for Christ who died for ALL? You don’t even think about Christ’s JUSTICE do you?

    “though it is a sugar coated fairy-land theory”

    Since you think it’s so sugar coated, then why is it that the MAJORITY of people just like you despise the scriptures that I presented above?

    “R. C. Sproul puts it, “God is viewed as being so “Loving” that he really doesnt care too much if we keep His law. The law is there to guide us, but if we stumble and fall, our celestial Grandfather will merely wink and say, “Boys will be boys”. What an absolute load of horse shit….”

    Well, that’s exactly how you feel about the scriptures…”horse shit” Romans 5:20 20 Yet law came in by the way, that the offense should be increasing. Yet where sin INCREASES, grace SUPEREXCEEDS, Matt, THE LAW came just so that man’s sin WILL INCREASE. NOW. who needs better UNDERSTANDING?? Did you go buy a CONCORDANT? It’d bet money you didn’t.

    “He is sad whenever one of His children go to hell, this is why ”

    Aww you think he is sad huh? I think it is you who is sad. The scriptures as stated above show that God does ALL HIS PLEASURE. And you act as if God can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT.

    “His fathers judgement is set…. ”

    God JUDGES IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. The Great WHITE Throne is NOT literally WHITE. Matt WHITE IS SYMBOLIC FOR RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT. You call a righteous judgment being BURNED ALIVE? Do you beat your children senseless continuously nonstop? You SICK man Matt, you should be tossed in prison!!! But you say “but wait, I don’t do that” THEN WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK GOD IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING FAR WORSE MATT?!? Matt I will tell you right in front of every single ATHEIST, THAT THEY, THE ATHEIST WILL RECEIVE THEIR SALVATION BEFORE YOU. but but but….. YEA well these are Christ words, NOT MINE. Mt 21:31 Which of the two does the will of the father?” They are saying, “The first.” Jesus is saying to them, “Verily, I am saying to you that the TRIBUTE COLLECTORS and the PROSTITUTES ARE PRECEDING YOU into the kingdom of God.

    “God says, ‘Behold I set before you the way of life and the way of death’”

    1 Cor 12:3no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

    Those who are NOT called to confess CANNOT confess. What part of this don’t YOU understand?

    “eternal punishment’(Matthew 25:46).”

    NO, it does NOT say “eternal punishment” It STATES “chastening eonian”

    Matt, you are a HYPOCRITE.

    The Hypocrisy of False Expressions

    1 Tim. 4:1-2 (a demonstration of the strange influence of demons)

    “God controls all things.” “God doesn’t control man’s free will.”

    “We can’t boast about going to heaven.” “If we go to hell, it’s our own fault.”

    “Love never faileth!” “Love can’t overcome human stubborness.”

    “Men are in bondage to sin.” “Men are free to choose Christ.”

    “Grace is unmerited favor…” “… given only to those who merit it with faith and obedience.”

    “GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND
    (1 Tim. 4:10)…” “… except for about ninety percent of them.”

    “GOD’S LOVE IN UNCONDITIONAL…” “… as long as you meet certain conditions.” If God loves us now will he ALWAYS love us? To you, God changes.

    “GOD LOVES YOU !” “… as long as you love Him.”

    “Christ died for all sin…” “… except the sin of not believing that He died for all sin.”

    “The Good Shepherd seeks the lost sheep until he finds it !” “The Good Shepherd seeks until it’s too late.”

    “God’s justice was satisfied in the cross of Christ.” “God’s justice demands eternal torment or annihilation.”

    You teach RELIGION, I teach THE GOOD NEWS. Matt, you foolish man!! Not only you are a hypocrite, but you ALSO call God a hypocrite.

    Religion’s “God” tells us to love our enemies, while he tortures his for eternity.

    Matt you are full of dead mans bones, a generations of SNAKES. You VIPER!! You are EXACTLY the same way the Pharisees were back in Christ’s day. You are MIRROR IMAGE of what they were. You have absolutely no clue as to what the orgins of hell is. You don’t have ONE OUNCE OF TRUTH IN YOUR BODY. ABSOLUTELY NONE!!

    You teach…

    Free will… That is FALSE!
    Hell… That is FALSE!
    Immortality of the soul… That is FALSE!
    Eternal Torment… That is FALSE!

    You probably also believe in the TRINITY. That is FALSE. You probably believe tithing is biblical. That is FALSE.

    FALSE, FALSE FALSE Matt, you teach FALSE DOCTRINE THAT CAME FROM THE PAGANS.

    I’ll clue you in on a secret. The teaching of hell DID NOT EVEN BEGIN TILL 400AD.

    THE FIRST CHRISTIANS WERE UNIVERSALISTS. IT’S A FACT!!

    “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction”

    Answer me Matt, and the purpose of DESTRUCTION IS………??? And the few are WHO……???

    “my friend, ex-alcoholic/drug abuser, died of a liver failure, awaiting the new liver, he died and went through a door…. It smelled of sulphur and was full of screams…”

    Your friend is a LIAR!! Tell him I said that too!!

    Is there a Scripture that states when a man dies, he is DEAD? Yes. Does Christendom believe that when a man dies, he is DEAD? No, of course not. And neither do you.

    Whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is NO work, NOR device, nor KNOWLEDGE, nor WISDOM, in the grave [Heb: sheol], where you go”(Ecclesiastes 9:10). But we are ALIVE when we die? That’s absurd! Scripture interprets scripture. No such thing as man possessing immortality. The word device means contrivance, intelligence and reason. And there are none of these in sheol. NONE!

    For in death there is NO REMEMBRANCE of Thee: in the grave [Heb: sheol] who shall give You thanks?” Psalm 6:5 But your still ALIVE?? stupid!

    ‎1 Tim 6:16 ONLY GOD has immortality. It doesn’t get any clearer than this. AND Ecc 9:5 the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING!!

    You little friend is just like this Bill Weise guy. A LIAR!! You either believe the scriptures or you believe this fairy tale of hell.

    NO Matt you are NOT A BELIEVER. I think the verses I gave you above proves you are a NONBELIEVER because you believe NONE of them. NOT 1.

    You are a shame to your own belief.

  161. Phillip says:

    The variation in how often “hell” appears in various translations itself is a red flag, as it shows that even the “experts” can’t seem to make up their minds
    where the word should be used.

    Incidentally, “hell” is most often used in the KJV — the same bible version that also mentions “dragons” and “unicorns”. ;D

    If anyone’s interested, here’s a chart that compares how often “hell” is used in different translations.

    http://outercyberian.blogspot.com/2010/07/hell-even-bible-translators-themselves.html

  162. A Champ Matt says:

    I’ll pray for you phillip, that you will be accepted into His kingdom. If you stood at His throne and asked, Why should I let you into MY heaven, What would you say?

    Brother Matt

  163. A Champ Matt says:

    He asked sorry;)

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